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| "Come on you Glory Boys!!" Chris Egan - Peel Thunder and Perth Glory supporter, Perth Glory historian, and former WAFL radio commentator. Chris's father Stewart Egan played five games and kicked two goals for Swan Districts in its 1982 premiership season. |
My
interview with Chris Egan (Peel Thunder and Perth Glory supporter, Perth Glory
historian, and former WAFL radio commentator, age 25), Mandurah, Western
Australia, 14 August 2012, by Kieran James
Chris Egan on Peel
Thunder Football Club: “Despite our crowds having nothing much to celebrate,
the crowds are not far from the WAFL average. You have a loyal base of
supporters. The club continues to exist and it has been resistant to
hindrances. It shows it is a club of resistance and fight that will not lie down
although it had many aspects that led to its current status in the game”.
Chris Egan on young
WAFL supporters aged 13-30 years: “Now the young people are looking at WAFL as
an entertainment product and they don’t get as emotionally involved. A lot of my
mates are emotionally involved in their WAFL clubs. It depends on what circle
of friends you are in”.
Chris Egan on Perth
Football Club supporters: “Perth fans are very nostalgic!”
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| Rushton Park, Mandurah |
Chris Egan Question 1:
I was always interested. My dad [Stewart Egan] took me to the first Peel Thunder game in 1996.
A year or two before that (I was six) my dad took me to South Fremantle versus
West Perth. The year before Peel joined the WAFL there was a South Fremantle
game here. My dad and granddad would take me to Rushton Park. I would request
to go with my dad and granddad to all Rushton Park [local league] games. My
granddad lived in Morfitt Street near the ground; I was extremely close to him.
I would go to three to four [Peel Thunder] home games a year from 1996 to 2004.
During my first year of uni, 2005, there was an email [I received] saying
“would you like to do around-the-grounds reporting in WAFL?” At 990AM. I would
get the stats for the WAFL games. I went to all the WAFL grounds in the comp. After
around-the-grounds, I was assistant producer for the radio.
KJ: So what was
your perception about the WAFL games you saw?
Chris
E: I found it was more enjoyable. I had issues with the unfairness of the AFL
draw. It was manipulated to bigger clubs and crowds. I found I was drawn to the
WAFL style of play. It was less scientific. I gradually got interested in the
football through that; I got more enjoyment from the WAFL [than from AFL].
One of my friends, a Dockers’ and
Eagles’ member, I got involved in around-the-grounds reporting. My mate, a
South Fremantle supporter and Perth Glory fan, would do around-the-grounds for
South Fremantle. I got other friends involved. These people were doing sports
management or journalism in uni. I grabbed a bigger group going to the WAFL
games and it developed a social side as well. I was around-the-grounds before I
was associate producer.
That was how I got involved. My dad was
a Swan Districts fan and former player so there was a WAFL connection in the
family. [KJ note: Chris's father Stewart Egan played five games and kicked two goals for Swan Districts in its 1982 premiership season. At a weaker club he may have played more senior league football.] He is now a Peel Thunder member; he hasn’t missed a game this year. AFL
is still his main priority but if his son was not interested in WAFL he would
not be. I have friends all through the WAFL including my past lecturer who I go
to games with. I have a wide social group.
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| Chris Egan supporting Perth Glory FC |
KJ: The social group is at Peel Thunder games?
Chris
E: I don’t have as large a group at Peel Thunder as when I go to away games as
my mates are opposition fans. I have been to every Peel Thunder game this year
except for three when I was either going to A-League [soccer] finals outside
Perth or when the Peel Thunder and Perth Glory starting times clashed.
KJ Question 2: What are some of the most memorable WAFL games you have seen?
Chris
E Question 2: My most memorable game was in the year [2002] when Danny Wells
played. It poured with rain in the first half. It was the most memorable game,
it was 2002. Danny Wells completely dominated the game. It was the year Allistair
Pickett won the Sandover Medal and Wells finished third. [JF note: Allistair Pickett
won the 2002 Sandover Medal with 33 votes. In 2004 he won his second Sandover
Medal whilst playing for Subiaco.] We were eight goals behind at three-quarter
time...
KJ: Playing against whom?
Chris
E: It was versus East Fremantle at Rushton Park [JF note: Round 18, 3 August
2002, Peel Thunder 13.17 (95) d East Fremantle 13.13 (91)]. This year we also
beat Claremont at Claremont Oval [KJ note: Round 11, 2 June 2012, Peel Thunder 14.14 (98) d Claremont 11.18 (84)]. Also in 2010 I remember we beat West Perth by seven goals
which stopped them getting into the finals [KJ note: Round 8, 9 May 2010, Peel
Thunder 16.17 (113) d West Perth 11.6 (72), Rushton Park]. We played an amazing
game of football.
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| Chris Egan supporting P Glory (centre, white t-shirt) |
KJ Question 3: Do you follow the AFL as well as following WAFL?
Chris
E Question 3: I think I do watch games still. I am still an Eagles’
supporter but I don’t feel upset when they lose. I don’t have a strong
emotional connection to them. It does not affect my feelings when they lose.
I’m probably more of a band-wagon jumper. I hope they do well but I don’t get
upset if they don’t. This is not my attitude in relation to other teams I
support.
KJ: What do you think of the AFL leadership and strategic direction? You know I
have made a few comments about this on the website...
Chris
E: I don’t like Demetriou. I think it [AFL] has been way too concerned about
getting the largest crowds although they have changed it in the last year. I
think GWS [Greater Western Sydney] is going to be a financial disaster.
First-year crowds are below what they expected. They said they had a 20-year
plan but it needs to be revisited. Sydney Swans also does not have a large
supporter base. Other codes are not spending nearly as much as AFL in Sydney.
Sydney Swans have a base support of only 20,000. They got 13,000 to one game in
inclement weather this year. There has been an over-emphasis on the
non-traditional states over the traditional states. Port Adelaide Power is
doing poorly because the players are going to regions which can’t create their
own players. Other clubs are weaker too.
KJ: And the AFL has, very disappointingly, allowed State of Origin football to die...
Chris
E: You would have a lot of state [football] interest if players could play
where they choose rather than the draft. Victoria versus The Rest did not make
many people happy except for the Victorians.
KJ Question 4: Can you give us your comments about Peel Thunder’s on-field
performance since its WAFL debut and is it correct to label the club as a
failure given it has never played finals?
Chris
E Question 4: I said this to you before [during our walk around Rushton Park
earlier in the day]. There are multiple factors involved. We had our best
players siphoned off. We lost Pickett two seasons after his Sandover Medal win
and Wells that season. Pickett won four premierships with Subiaco. We lost our
best coach Peter German that year. Our midfield was ripped out. The club never
had concessions to start with and had no revenue to improve facilities. When
Peel came in there was dilapidated facilities and no funding unlike with West
Perth at Arena Joondalup. Building a new grandstand was so important for the
club and effort was put into this rather than into the on-field side. We are
constantly rebuilding. We didn’t have the greatest administration.
Mandurah is not a huge hub of
employment, we have three training bases, Mandurah has higher unemployment, and
it is not easy to attract players. We lost Rory and Brock O’Brien to East
Fremantle, two integral players. Good players often leave to achieve success.
David Hynes (Fremantle Dockers) got injured for many years. Two full-time
coaches – Garry Hocking and Chris Waterman – were not there for the club but
for the [prospects of future] AFL appointments. We have geographic issues,
player issues (Hayden Ballantyne, David Wells – they are recognized as the best
talent to come into the WAFL in the last ten years). Once we have good players
they are wanted by other clubs who can give them better employment closer to
uni.
KJ: Being based in Mandurah then is somewhat of a double-edged sword?
Chris
E: Yes and the AFL knew this was a fast-growth area. AFL wanted a team here.
South Fremantle did not look after the area as well as they should have.
KJ: So you regard the future of Peel Thunder Football Club in the WAFL as now
assured?
Chris
E: The talent development for the AFL is the main reason the club will
continue.
KJ: As a feeder club for WAFL / AFL?
Chris
E: It is not so much a feeder club but it’s why the club was admitted ... and
the club is producing good players. If you take the club away it is to the
detriment of all WAFL clubs. As long as the players are in the comp [somewhere]
then the entertainment is there.
I have heard we are paying too much to
Victorian and South Australia players. Having impediments for success in 1996
has created revolving issues for the club. A bad season creates further worse
seasons due to lack of money and attendances. Success breeds success as they
say.
KJ: So, returning to our original question, would it be fair to call Peel
Thunder a failure given it has never reached the finals?
Chris
E: For me I think the impediments prevented Peel Thunder from being anything
other what it is today. If you don’t invest in expansion clubs they won’t do
well. You can see it in NSL [former National Soccer League, 1977-2003],
A-League, and NRL. Despite our crowds having nothing much to celebrate, the
crowds are not far from the WAFL average. You have a loyal base of supporters.
The club continues to exist and it has been resistant to hindrances. It shows
it is a club of resistance and fight that will not lie down although it had
many aspects that led to its current status in the game.
KJ Question 5: Can you tell me more about the Peel Thunder supporters?
Chris
E Question 5: There are a few hardcore supporters. You have different audiences
at different games – more at the Fremantle away games [than at away games
further away from Mandurah]. A dozen or so would go to every game. Fremantle
Oval [versus South Fremantle] would get 200-250 away supporters especially if
Peel Thunder is in good form. It can be 20-30 for a more distant away game. I’m
probably one of the few dedicated fans of my age. I don’t think there is anyone
else aged in their mid-20s who will dedicate themselves to go to every game.
Those who do [go to every game] are 45-60 years, middle-class – they have a son
or nephew in Colts and they will stay for the league game. Only a few of us
will go to every game that don’t have a [family or friendship] connection to
the players.
KJ: Is there any cheer squad at Peel Thunder?
Chris
E: There is one guy who will shout in front of the Members at home games and he
will sing “Let’s go, Thunder, let’s go” and really gee them up. There is no
cheer squad. He has a Docker tattoo on his arm as well. He is well known within
the club; he does create that chant and get everyone involved. He does get the
whole crowd involved. He does not stand behind the goals. There is no other
cheer squad.
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| Patrick Mirosevich, SFFC cheer squad |
KJ Question 6: What cheer squads presently exist in the WAFL as far as you are
aware? As you know, this WAFL Golden Era website focuses on the mid-1980s when
Perth, Claremont, West Perth, and Subiaco had sizeable cheer squads.
Chris
E Question 6: There is really only one cheer squad which has flags and that is
South Fremantle cheer squad in my opinion. [KJ note: See my interview with
Patrick Mirosevich of South Fremantle Football Club cheer squad on this website.] There is one guy at Subiaco but there is not an
organization of people who sit in one place with chants and flags. Only South
Fremantle has this group.
At Swan Districts under the beer shed
especially in bigger games there is lots of chanting including soccer themes.
They are more vocal, they don’t have flags. [JF note: This group is called the
Abuse Crew.] I went to East Perth versus Swan Districts; they had a lot of
chants under the tin roof.
KJ: Is this tin roof in the Members’ area?
Chris
E: There is a public bar; it is not restricted to members. They were very loud.
They were quite organized. They had their own shirts. I was told one of the
Perth Glory Shed members was in that group which is another link between WAFL
and Perth Glory.
South Fremantle cheer squad has six main
members; half are regular Perth Glory fans that will go to [Perth Glory] home
and away games. The South Fremantle cheer squad will go to the end where South
Fremantle is kicking. Their ages are 21, 28, 22, 15, one in his fifties, and
one of the dads in his fifties as well. They have flags as well as chants.
There is another one, East Fremantle.
They stand behind the goals, mostly at the southern end. They are all aged
between 20 and 40. It varies in numbers. They have 10-15 people at other
grounds [for away games]. One guy called Hank has a flag and he is a Glory
supporter. The cheer squad know him and like him but he does not sit in the
same vicinity as them. He is an aboriginal guy.
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| SFFC cheer squad - Patrick second left, Wayne far right |
KJ Question 7: In various places on the WAFL Golden Era website I have said how
the WAFL needs to attract more people in the 13-30 years age range. These are
the people with no personal experience of the pre-West Coast era in Perth.
However, as I’m now living in Queensland and in recent years have only attended
Lathlain Park games I may be getting the wrong impression of WAFL overall. What
are your comments on this?
Chris
E Question 7: I see that there is quite a few that will go. [However] I don’t
see many at Rushton Park. At East Fremantle, South Fremantle, and Claremont you
get quite a few males in that age range and a few females who have boyfriends
playing in that game. In terms of the supporters and members some are the older
base. The Claremont after-match presentation had an average age of 75 when I
was there! Younger ones would sit on the grassed banks [at Claremont Oval] and
regard it [WAFL] as a valid entertainment option. They see it that they can
pick and choose. Older ones see it as a loyalty, fan, and pride issue. Younger
ones are attracted but they see it differently as cheap entertainment.
KJ: So because I have seen recent WAFL games only at Lathlain Park do you think
I’m not getting an accurate picture of the situation across the WAFL?
Chris
E: I have not seen as many [younger ones] at Lathlain Park. At East Fremantle
Oval you will see some trendy young people. At the Foxtel Cup Grand Final
[2012], Claremont versus Werribee, there were many young trendy people there.
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| SFFC cheer squad, Patrick has red jacket & flag |
KJ: What was the total crowd at that game? I think the Foxtel Cup is really a
great development. I went to the Claremont versus Port Adelaide Magpies game
last year...
Chris
E: The total estimated crowd was 1,500 on a Thursday night. You will see at
WAFL your young Aussie mates who just want to hang out for the day.
KJ: In one comments piece on the WAFL Golden Era website the author suggested free
admission to WAFL games for children and concession pass holders and for
full-time students less than 25 years. What is your opinion of this idea?
Chris
E: The WAFL does a lot of marketing for families but the student and young
adult market is quite competitive. I don’t think you need free adults, you need
social media. I told Peel Thunder they are telling people things [online] but
not engaging with their community or understanding what they want. Are they
really looking at their demographics? Resources for social media can be
enhanced. I don’t think you need to devalue your product by free entries. There
are 2-for-1 concession entry tickets in the Football
Budget. The WAFC should really promote social media although it has
improved this year. Peel Thunder says there are a lack of resources and funding
to utilize social media more extensively. They have the opportunities but they
don’t have the time and people to take advantage of it. You don’t want much
central direction [of social media]. The WAFC could direct money to clubs for
social media.
KJ: I have been posting links to WAFL Golden Era posts on the Facebook pages of
the WAFL and the various clubs. South Fremantle, East Perth, West Perth, and
Perth seem to have the most active and popular Facebook pages of all the clubs.
Chris
E: Perth fans are very nostalgic!
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| Mike B. & Kieran J., WP cheer squad founders, 1984-86 |
KJ: Yes!
Chris
E: Some of these regions, such as Claremont and Peel Thunder could have
pensioner days or include a [match] ticket with a lunch / dinner or have a bus
in from the country zone. They do this a lot on the east coast. There are
opportunities to expand the supporter base in all demographics. It is business
as usual [unfortunately] for some WAFL clubs. There are further factors to
increase growth. Social media will not grab everyone. It is only one factor to
bring supporters in. Now the young people are looking at [WAFL] as an
entertainment product and they don’t get as emotionally involved. A lot of my
mates are emotionally involved in
their WAFL clubs. It depends on what circle of friends you are in.
KJ Question 8: What do you think should be the WAFL’s strategic direction? In
particular do you think there should be new expansion teams perhaps based in
country regions? An author wrote on this website about the Intrust Super Cup model
of active expansion. Intrust Super Cup is the Queensland second-tier rugby-league
competition which is the local equivalent of the WAFL being one tier below NRL.
Chris
E Question 8: Strategic direction of the WAFL? One area I am interested in is
regionalization. West Perth is trying to attract the British element in their area
by the Union Jack on their jersey. However, this may offend or alienate people
who don’t see the Union Jack as a positive thing...
KJ: Yes we may need to create a new club called West Perth Celtic [smiles].
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| The over-30s crowd at Lathlain Park, 2/7/11 |
Chris
E: Yes [also smiles]. There are better ways to do it than West Perth has done.
Peel Thunder can link in better to its region. A bus from Waroona [to Peel
Thunder home games] two to three times a year could grab the youth. Clubs need
to look at the community and demographics and aim the club in that direction.
They need to have regard for other cultures. West Perth did not do that as some
people see the Union Jack as an offensive emblem.
There is a big debate at East Fremantle
as to whether they should move to Fremantle Oval and whether Claremont should
move to the Agricultural Showgrounds. It is cheaper for Claremont to redevelop
their own ground. For East Fremantle it comes down to politics between them and
South Fremantle regarding the leasing arrangements. I don’t know how keen South
Fremantle is about East Fremantle coming to Freo Oval. East Fremantle wanted
50% of the gate and alcohol sales if the Foundation Day Derby was to be played
at Freo Oval each year but South Fremantle said “no”. It depends on their
individual situation as to how they think the club can best grow. East
Fremantle Council presently get one-third of the gate and they may not want
East Fremantle there. The land [East Fremantle Oval] is owned by the council
and they could make a lot of money by selling it off. They are using financial
penalties to drive them out, subtle means. I have a feeling South Fremantle do
not want them there [at Fremantle Oval]. I know an East Fremantle fan who does
not mind if they move back to their original home.
KJ: What do you think of the idea of expanding the WAFL by bringing in new
teams?
Chris
E: I think you really have to see whether a town can sustain a new club as two
new AFL clubs are draining players out of South Australia and Western
Australia. You don’t want to dilute the playing standard. A population of
around seven million [i.e. Victoria, South Australia, and Western Australia] is
supporting eighteen AFL clubs and bringing in other clubs will only increase
the dilution of the WAFL and SANFL. Now the zoning system has a [WAFL] club in
every part of the metro area. Before Peel was involved it was easier to miss
players because of the size of population of the zone. The club represents
250,000 people from Rockingham to Waroona. You are [now] less likely to miss
young players out.
KJ: What do you think about a team based in Bunbury? The town has produced some
fine WAFL footballers over the years...
Chris
E: I can’t see Bunbury getting in unless they have a population of 100,000 and
there is a desire to be in the comp. The mistake is wanting a team in rather
than they want to be in. The SWFL [South West Football League] clubs are paying
as much as the WAFL clubs. Carey Park is upgrading their facility. It may be
that people there are happy to have their own league. I will wait to see
whether they want to be in it and have a strong business case. Swan Districts
relies on a turnover of AUD4.6 million. You need a large turnover to compete
with the WAFL clubs. You need to turnover
this amount of cash to compete at the top end.
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| Danny Wells (Peel Thunder & North Melbourne) |
KJ: How about a new team in the Goldfields region?
Chris
E: I think Goldfields may be a bit far away. Being brought up in the Pilbara it
has a very transitional community in the mining sector. Lack of crowds in
Canberra shows transitional communities are not able to sustain clubs. I
haven’t actually been there [Goldfields] so I can’t comment much. Being seven
hours from Perth may not make it a functioning addition to the WAFL and the
population may not be able to support it. Also, like Bunbury, do they want to
be in it or not?
KJ Question 11: What do you think of the WAFL’s prospects for the future?
Chris
E Question 11: I see it in a positive limelight obviously. Since I’ve been
going to the WAFL from 2005 I’ve noticed a big change in the size of crowds. I
went to a final with 11,000 crowd at Swan Districts [preliminary final versus
East Perth on 11 September 2010 which drew a crowd of 11,251 people] and a
Foundation Day Derby crowd of 11,000 at East Fremantle Oval [Monday 1 June 2009
game which drew 11,051 people to East Fremantle Oval]. That experience at
Bassendean Oval was quite amazing. It felt like a really big game. Half the
crowd was Swan Districts, half was East Perth. You had merchandise sales for
both teams. People were still coming into the ground at quarter-time. The same
thing happened at East Fremantle Oval. I think people there did not expect
that. I think when you have already smashed [i.e. exceeded] people’s
expectations of what the WAFL will become there is the ability to continue to
smash expectations. Western Australians now see WAFL in a totally different
limelight from when it was Westars Rules. I think now Dennis Cometti wants to
protect the WAFL and John Worsfold says he does not want to ruin the WAFL comp
and he will leave it [entry of AFL reserves teams into the WAFL] to the WAFL presidents.
There is real camaraderie across the
nine clubs. There is more government funding. It is becoming increasingly
popular for corporates. Since we left Subiaco Oval crowds are rising for
finals. People are not seeing the WAFL as on its death-bed like in the Westar
era. People are happy to go to it as an entertainment option. The price has risen
but people are still going. It is not cheap now but the demand has shown itself
to be inelastic. It has shown you don’t need pokies to sustain your footy
clubs. SANFL clubs rely on poker machines but WAFL clubs have been able to stay
within their market demands and not [have their profitability] distorted by
pokies.
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| Danny Wells (PTFC & NMFC) |
KJ: Do you expect WAFL attendances will rise further?
Chris
E: I think it depends on how WAFL clubs go about it. There is an issue where we
have Claremont always on top of the ladder as they don’t have a large supporter
base. Top of the ladder clashes get bigger crowds whereas in the early-2000s
[this did not happen because] there was not the hype. Before you would get only
an extra 200 but now crowds are doubling. The Subiaco versus West Perth day [11
August 2011] was International Community Day with the Union Jack, they got
6,000 [official attendance 6,044 according to WAFL Online]. They will regard it
as a success and it may make that Union Jack continue. If they get 6,000 for
that they may continue to go in the same direction as Central District Bulldogs
[SANFL club which has an upfront British image].
KJ Question 12: Lastly, can I ask for your comment on WAFL Golden Era website
and have you suggestions for how we can expand or improve it?
Chris
E Question 12: I think it’s good. My dad played in the 1980s, my grandpa watched games in the 1980s. It’s good
to have an understanding of what they had. To have that history recorded is
invaluable to those people such as me who were not around to experience it.
KJ: Possible future directions for our website?
Chris
E: No, I have no suggestions. You should just build it as you see fit. I will let
you decide upon future direction. Whatever you do to create added information and
interest in the WAFL is a good thing.
KJ: OK, thanks very much for your time Chris and for your very detailed and insightful
observations about many topics relating to WAFL football. It is great in particular
to talk to a dedicated, new-generation WAFL fan in his twenties such as yourself.
Chris
E: Thank you!
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| Kieran James (left) and Chris Egan @ Cicerello's Mandurah, 14 August 2012 |
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| Chris Egan (left) and friend Reuben @ Dorrien Gardens Soccer Ground, West Perth, watching Perth Soccer Club play in the State League, August 2012 |
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| Chris Egan @ Rushton Park, Mandurah, home of Peel Thunder Football Club, 14 August 2012 |
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| Chris Egan @ Rushton Park, Mandurah, home of Peel Thunder Football Club, 14 August 2012 |
