ARTICLE: "Did the Spirit of Football die when Roy George moved from Applecross JFC to Karoonda?"

Applecross JFC stalwarts Roy "The Spoon" George (centre) and Doug "Dougie" Stirling (right), 23 years on.

Did the spirit of football die when Roy George moved from Applecross JFC to Karoonda?

Karoonda Reserve, Booragoon.

Back in the 1970s, Perth was still a traditional and very much mono-cultural city. Each primary-school had a local junior football club which was independent of the school but, in most cases, used the primary-school oval for training. It was almost compulsory for boys to play Aussie Rules football in the winter and cricket in the summer (as well as possibly Little Athletics). However, even then, times were beginning to change and a few junior football clubs, namely the smallest ones attached to the smallest primary-schools, were beginning to struggle for numbers. As a result, in East Fremantle Football Club heartland, just to the west of the Canning River, Ardross JFC (with its red-and-white South Fremantle guernseys) merged with Brentwood (with its red, blue, and white guernseys similar to the Footscray guernseys of the early-1970s with one red and one white horizontal stripe against a royal blue background). This merger created an early junior mega- or super-club which lacked the same connection to district as the other junior clubs and the two original merged clubs had. This merged entity was called Karoonda JFC, and it kept the red, blue, and white of the two merged clubs in a new and trendy guernsey design. It was called Karoonda JFC because its home ground was Karoonda Reserve, located on Karoonda Road, Booragoon. Although its players and officials might deny this, it became something of an upper middle-class club because that part of Booragoon had opened up for housing only a few years before and was home to upwardly mobile upper middle-class families. The section of Booragoon on the western side of Riseley Street was even newer, having mostly opened up in the early-1980s. By 1983-84, Karoonda had begun to attract the more serious footballers who were aiming at a professional career, including, most notably, Mike Broadbridge (although it was also his local junior club).

I played for Mount Pleasant JFC (the Mounties) Under-14s in 1982 under the legendary coach Craig “Craigo” Campbell, who was a charismatic and flamboyant Malcolm Brown type personality. He would do unheard-of things, at junior level, like host rowdy and fun players’ teas at his home in Mount Pleasant, a few blocks from the river. I think he needed that male-bonding environment especially because he had two daughters and no sons. However, by Year 10 of high-school (1983), Mount Pleasant could no longer field a team. They may have had an Under-16s in 1983, I can’t recall.

Applecross JFC was going to field an Under-15s team, so I joined up, perhaps recruited by my high-school friend, Roy “The Spoon” George. Applecross JFC, with its red, black, and white St. Kilda guernseys, was also a small club catering only to the small suburb of Applecross which, even then, boasted an aging population and was showing the first signs of gentrification. Under-15s was different from primary-school football, which was relatively even and egalitarian with most players not being too dissimilar to one another in playing skill and fitness; most young people then lived active outdoor lives at least while in primary-school. At primary-school level, all clubs were roughly equal in strength (just as in sprints racing) and any club could pretty much beat any other club on any given day.

By contrast, by Under-15s, a big gap had emerged between those footballers who were fit and saw football as a possible career path and those who were regular smokers and casual drinkers and who were just in it for mate-ship and enjoyment. Players of the first type tended to be attracted to Karoonda while players of the second type were recruited that year to play for Applecross. As a result, there was a massive gap between the quality and ability of these two teams although Applecross had five or six reasonable footballers and everyone who pulled on that underdog St. Kilda guernsey (a poor-performing VFL/AFL club at the time) tried their very hardest every single minute of action. There was one game, Applecross versus Karoonda, at our home ground of Gairloch Reserve (named after an obscure Scottish lake), when the home ground advantage counted for nothing, and Karoonda beat us by about 40 goals to one point (say 40.25 to 0.1 or similar). The great Mike Broadbridge played on the half-back flank and still kicked ten goals against me that day. Years later, I was surprised Mike never made it to the VFL/AFL; I guess a VFL/AFL player would have scored more goals against me! We had just enough players to field a team each week, but we struggled for numbers and so we had to accept even the very weakest of players (and I include myself in that category). We might have gone one or two men short for certain games.

Gairloch Reserve, looking south to Macrae Road.

We had Scott “The Fish” Herring as first ruck-man, and I knew him well from primary-school days at Mount Pleasant; in those days he lived in Davenport Road, Booragoon, and I lived nearby in Hewitt Way, and we would sometimes play cricket and football at the local Layman Park at the foot of my street. In high-school, Fish was one of the tough guys, and a heavy smoker, but he always maintained a good heart and he did not forget primary-school friendships. He had charisma but he also had a good set of values. He was short for a ruck-man at Unde-15s level and I remember him struggling manfully against taller, fitter, and faster opponents all season. Scott grew up in Booragoon and attended Mount Pleasant Primary School so he was one of the very few Applecross JFC players (I was another) who lived outside of Applecross proper and had not gone to Applecross Primary School.

One of our best players was Roy “The Spoon” George, a strong and aggressive key-position player who could play at centre-half-forward or in the ruck. He was a Malcolm Brown / Jason Dunstall / Tony Lockett / Dermott Brereton / Stephen Kernahan type footballer. He was one of our very few players who could have held down a regular spot at a club like Karoonda (which is exactly what did happen, as we will see).

The other Applecross JFC players I can remember are Craig Wright (full-back), Doug Stirling (wing), and David “Blackie” Black. Blackie was probably my best friend in the team, along with Roy, as we had sat next to each other for a few weeks in Science class in Year 9 and I think we were in Photography class together in Year 10.

Craig was a good full-back; reliable, and a strong mark and kick. However, he could not do much to stop the tide of opposition goals as these would be initiated in the midfield and the ball would always be sailing over his head. He was a great kick out from goal; he had a majestic and righteous drop-punt which was accurate and deadly in flight. It would drop suddenly, like an expert’s volleyball serve, and his teammates knew about this and could often mark his kick outs from the goal-square. I remember taking at least one mark from one of his kicks; it was on the half-back flank at Gairloch Reserve in the south-west corner of the ground (the Gairloch Street side but at the Macrae Road end). Maybe that was my only mark for the year! Craig’s kicks could deceive the opposition as they would float magnificently, in the usual textbook way, and then drop suddenly as if shot by a pistol. Wrightie had the integrity of being a guy who had come up through Applecross Primary School, Applecross JFC, and Applecross Senior High School.

Then we had Douglas “Dougie” Stirling on the wing who was one of our top six players without a shadow of doubt. Looking back, I guess we were stacking the back-line which was a common sense thing to do given our team’s shortcomings. There was no-one of quality forward of the wing and especially after Roy left. Doug was slim, fast, and agile; he had pace and was a thinking person’s footballer. It seemed like he was running on tiptoes as he had no presence and could move quickly into empty space without seemingly making any noise. A good comparison would be the Carlton wingman, David Glascott, who was at his peak during the Carlton back-to-back premiership years of 1981-82. The soccer player, Shunsuke Nakamura, who played for Glasgow Celtic, was similar in that, if you watch videos of his goal-scoring efforts, you will see him silently and quickly moving into just the right positions to outwit the defence and score often with a single touch from a teammate’s pass. Doug was in the unenviable position of often getting the ball and not knowing what to do with it as he was always under pressure and we had no-one of any talent forward of the wing.

Roy “The Spoon” George’s departure from Applecross JFC to join Karoonda mid-season 1983 was massive news among our group of mates in high-school and beyond. It caused almost as much of a sensation as when Maurice “Mo” Johnston became the first high-profile Roman Catholic player to join Glasgow Rangers in 1989 (well, perhaps not). It felt, deep down, like a betrayal of sorts. It shook my faith in the spirit of football and the goodness of the world. No wonder that Metallica released an album called …And Justice for All. Applecross needed all the good players it could get whereas Karoonda was already spoiled for choice. Imagine the legendary Doug “Dougie” Hawkins leaving struggling Footscray in the mid-season of 1981 to join a premiership-quality team at Carlton or Tony Lockett leaving St Kilda in mid-season 1985 for Essendon. It felt like that. There was something very depressing, if not morally questionable, about the whole sad affair. It shook your faith in humanity. I played one year for Karoonda Under-16s in 1984 as Applecross didn’t field a team. It wasn’t very enjoyable. Applecross should have demanded a transfer fee from Karoonda for Roy’s services in 1983 and shared the cash out among the players! A free pie and chips and a free ticket to a WAFL game would have been very much appreciated! [By Jack Frost, 5 October 2018.]

Gairloch Reserve looking south towards Macrae Road from Gairloch Street. The view would have been very similar in 1983.

Karoonda Reserve in Booragoon (bottom four pictures). The children's playground replaces the double cricket nets which used to stand here in the late-1970s and 1980s. The club-room is the same as in 1983-84 except for the new section on the far western end which juts forward compared to the rest of the structure (and has no veranda section).

OPINION: "Why the West Coast Eagles' initial 1987 playing squad was faulty", by Jack Frost, 13/3/2018

West Coast Eagles’ inaugural playing squad (1987)

The official WPFC historian Brian Atkinson states that West Perth sometimes did not receive its fair share of state team representatives in years when the club made the finals. Atkinson comments that: “The failure of any West Perth player to gain state selection in 1984 was a matter of great controversy within the West Perth camp”, especially as the club was in third place at the time the team was selected (only to eventually miss the finals). The West Coast Eagles’ initial 35-man squad for season 1987 was also disheartening for some West Perth supporters.

The five West Perth players chosen were: John Gastev, Sean King, Dean Laidley, Paul Mifka, and Dean Warwick with King being a later addition to the original 32-player squad which was first announced at the official launch at Perth’s Merlin (now Hyatt) Hotel. These players were bright and promising youngsters but arguably, with the exception of Laidley and perhaps Gastev, they had not yet developed the consistency or backlog of strong performances to merit selection. The five West Perth players in the initial West Coast squad were clearly chosen, if not at random, then by people largely disrespectful or apathetic towards the club.

Favourite sons of the club, such as Phil Bradmore, Les Fong, and Peter Menaglio were wilfully overlooked although their careers were still active and their playing performances were still strong. Although Brian Atkinson “did not have any strong feelings either way”[1], he states “you would have to include Fong and Menaglio” as the top two players for the club during the drought-era and prior to the formation of West Coast (i.e. 1976-86). Both Fong and Menaglio were named in the club’s “Team of the Century”, Menaglio on the left-wing and Fong as the first rover. Menaglio continued to play senior football with West Perth up until the 1989 season so he was hardly “over the hill” by late 1986. Bradmore’s birth-date is 2 April 1959; Fong’s is 24 August 1956 whilst Menaglio’s is 4 September 1958, making these three players 27, 30, and 28-years-of-age, respectively, as at October 1986. (As mentioned, Menaglio won the Breckler Medal for club fairest-and-best in 1984 whilst Bradmore won it the following year. Menaglio was also equal runner-up behind the three tied winners for the 1984 Sandover Medal. Les Fong was a close runner-up to Menaglio in the 1984 Breckler Medal count and, from 1981-84, Menaglio and Fong shared four Breckler Medals.) Fong top-scored for the club with 14 votes at the 1986 Sandover Medal count, won by Mark Bairstow of South Fremantle, although, astonishingly, there were no West Perth players in the top 24 (yes, read that again, it is not a typo).[2]

Peter Menaglio (WPFC)

Also worthy of consideration for selection by West Coast in late 1986 were Corry Bewick, Derek Kickett, and George Michalczyk. A newspaper report at the time suggested that Darren Bewick, younger brother of Corry, was not chosen because he had elected to remain in Perth for two more years to complete his teaching degree.[3] It appears that West Perth was unfashionable for the corporate set that was running West Coast, compared to players from East Fremantle and Subiaco, despite the fact that West Perth had beaten East Fremantle consistently in 1985. The disrespect shown to the club’s favourite sons, and especially to Bradmore, Fong, and Menaglio, rankled with some West Perth supporters. It would have been a mark of respect to Fong and to the club if Fong had been selected, if only for one or two seasons, in the same way that Robert Wiley of Perth Demons (formerly of Richmond) had been brought into the West Coast squad for 1987 at the twilight of that player’s esteemed career.

West Coast’s initial squad was chosen for the future and, in hindsight, we might fail to realize how young the players were then since now, looking back, we remember the distinguished VFL/AFL careers that many of that initial squad went on to have. Even Phil Narkle was allegedly only 24-years-old despite already having played at St Kilda for three seasons.[4] (In fact The West Australian of 31 October 1986 was in error: Narkle was actually 25-years-old as at 31 October 1986. The ninth 2011 edition of The Encyclopaedia of AFL Footballers at page 627 lists his birth date as being 29 January 1961.) Don Holmes (27-years-old), Glendinning (30), Turner (27), and Wiley (31) were the only inaugural West Coast players aged over 25 as at 31 October 1986 according to The West Australian.[5] It seems that the general principle which guided selection was to only select players aged over 25 if they had prior VFL/AFL experience. Bradmore’s prior VFL/AFL experience seems to have been either forgotten or discounted. In hindsight, at least, West Coast erred with its selection of the five West Perth players in 1987 or it clearly picked players that it had no real intention, in advance, of awarding game time to. King and Mifka managed only one game each for West Coast and Warwick played zero. Early Eagles squad members from Swan Districts such as Kevin Caton (1 West Coast game, 1988); Joe Cormack (10 games, 1988); Don Holmes (23 games, 1987-89); Brent Hutton (13 games, 1988-89); and Don Langsford (zero games) suffered similar fates which further soured the relationship between Swans and West Coast.

Derek Kickett, Les Fong (WP)

At the 1986 Sandover Medal count Laidley was equal second among West Perth players with 13 votes while Gastev was fourth highest with 11 votes. However, Warwick and King were way down the list, polling only two votes each and coming in at equal 15^th for the club, while Mifka polled no votes at all. West Perth supporters could be forgiven for having being somewhat mystified about the five West Perth players selected. Had they been picked with only a bare minimum of thought just to make up the numbers with the West Coast leadership having had no serious prior intention of awarding any of them serious game time? Were people like Ron Alexander and Graham Moss unduly influenced by old WAFL club rivalries which led to them give insufficient thought to the selection of West Perth players and insufficient respect to the players who had played best for West Perth in the prior three seasons? West Perth’s 1986 Sandover Medal vote-getters’ list should have been given more respect and consideration by the West Coast leaders.

Phil "Spock" Bradmore (WPFC)

Apart from Laidley, only Gastev later had anything resembling a successful VFL/AFL career and the vast majority of his games (113 out of 143) were played with the Brisbane Bears. Similarly, Laidley is better known today, as his Wikipedia page writes, for his 99 games for North Melbourne rather than for his earlier stint at West Coast. The 1994 West Coast premiership team featured zero West Perth players or ex-West Perth players. However, Craig Turley did play 115 games for West Coast between 1989 and 1995 and was a 1992 premiership player. A further reason for the my initial dislike of West Coast, which has mellowed only but slightly over the years, was the lack of West Perth players in the team. I support any club playing against West Coast as they are the temporary embodiment of my hopes and dreams.

---

[1] Source: Personal conversation with the author, 8 July 2011.

[2] Source: The West Australian, 16 September 1986, pp. 87-8.

[3] Christian, “Bennett, Turner join the Eagles”, pp. 103-4.

[4] The West Australian, 31 October 1986, player profiles, p. 102.

[5] Source: Ibid., p. 102.

OPINION: "How the WAFL could have been saved in 1986 (if anyone had cared)", by Jack Frost, 13/2/2018

How the WAFL could have been saved in 1986 (if anyone had cared), by Jack Frost

Indicative of Western Australia’s “either-or” (not “both-and”) mentality in relation to higher-level sport, no-one in Western Australian football ever seriously suggested in 1986 that the VFL/AFL or the WAFL make any type of reasonable effort to safeguard the WAFL competition’s future. Possible alternative formats never considered include any or all of the following:

(a) playing VFL/AFL games mid-week on Tuesday or Wednesday nights as the National Football League’s Wills Cup was played in the 1970s and how State of Origin rugby-league and Champions League European soccer are played today; and / or

(b) reducing the size of both seasons and playing the VFL/AFL and WAFL seasons one after the other with one running from January to June and the other from July to November similar to how the A-League plays in summer and the state soccer premier leagues in winter or how the “Super 15” rugby competition season finishes several months prior to the finish of the club-based rugby competitions in Sydney and Brisbane; and / or

(c) accepting only extant, traditional club teams into a national league rather than composite teams. This model is more likely to keep the second-tier leagues strong as supporters of the clubs left in the second-tier will be less likely to switch to the national league side than under the composite-club model. You would then have a situation similar, at least in theory, to one Midlands-based club being promoted one division in English soccer (say, Birmingham City) while all the others stayed where they were (Aston Villa, Walsall, etc.) It would not have a great effect on any of the divisions/leagues. My preferred options would have been (a) combined with (c).

If any or all of these ideas had been tried perhaps the WAFL might have larger crowds and a higher profile than it has today. However, we must remember Brisbane Strikers’ soccer player Frank Farina’s comments about Australian sporting crowds. English fans “who support Huddersfield Town in division five will [always] support Huddersfield Town”, according to Farina. In the case of English soccer, in the Blue Square Premier League (the former Vauxhall Conference and fifth-tier of the pyramid), the once strong Football League clubs Cambridge United, Luton Town, and Oxford United averaged crowds of 3156, 6816, and 6376 respectively in the 2008-09 season with the highest crowds for these three clubs being 4870, 8223, and 10613 (up to and including 9 November 2008) (source: Non League magazine [UK], December 2009 edition, p. 42). These are obviously very good crowds for teams playing at the fifth-tier of the pyramid and outside the Football League and are indicative of strong supporter loyalty towards these traditional clubs.

Luton Town’s record average home crowd of 13,452 in 1982-83 (source: Luton Town FC on Wikipedia), when the club played in the then First Division, means that crowds dropped only by 55% between 1982-83 and 2008-09 despite a drop of four tiers. In contrast to English fans, according to Frank Farina, Australian fans will only watch, in any significant numbers, what they perceive to be the premier or the national competition in any sport. This caveat must be borne in mind when considering any of my suggested alternative solutions (a) to (c) above. WAFL crowds have fallen by around 75% since 1986 although the WAFL clubs have effectively dropped down only by one tier if we regard the old VFL, WAFL, and SANFL as having all been on tier-one of the pyramid in the pre-West Coast era. We can compare that decline to the 55% drop off in crowds experienced by Luton Town after it dropped by four tiers.

To buy the book Goodbye Leederville Oval about the WAFL in the 1984-86 period:

Paperback version: http://www.lulu.com/shop/kieran-james/goodbye-leederville-oval-history-of-west-perth-cheer-squad-1984-86/paperback/product-23448563.html

Hardcover version: http://www.lulu.com/shop/kieran-james/goodbye-leederville-oval-history-of-west-perth-cheer-squad-1984-86/hardcover/product-23516768.html
Large-print paperback version (hardcover large-print also available): http://www.lulu.com/shop/kieran-james/goodbye-leederville-oval-history-of-west-perth-cheer-squad-1984-86-large-print/paperback/product-23477328.html

You can also find the book by typing the book title into Amazon.

SUMMARY: This book will allow supporters to relive great teams, great players, and great matches from a wonderful era in WA football 1984-86 before West Coast Eagles joined the expanded VFL.

OPINION: "Why not hold WAFL Grand Finals at the Suburban Grounds?", by Jack Frost

Fremantle Oval: my first preference for an alternative WAFL Grand Final venue

Bassendean Oval: My second preference

I would like to suggest that the WAFL considers shifting the WAFL Grand Final to suburban traditional grounds in the future and away from the AFL corporate megastadium of Subaco Oval. (I refuse to use any sponsor's names in naming grounds unless the sponsor pays me personally.) Nothing is sacred in the WAFL these days and the move should be considered. Playing the Grand Final at Subiaco Oval made sense when the three minor finals were played there and it was the home ground of Subiaco Football Club. Now the ground is firmly within the AFL corporate sphere and has no logical or necessary connection with second-tier football. Whatever Subiaco Oval may have meant to the WAFL and to WAFL supporters in the past I believe is now forever lost.

Last week West Perth played East Perth in front of 20,000 people in the 2013 WAFL Grand Final. Perhaps the crowd was reduced somewhat by bad weather. Not living in Western Australia anymore I have no first-hand knowledge of this. However, WP v EP is a major traditional clash and I doubt that any other match is as important in WAFL football other than the Fremantle derby. If WP v EP can only attract 20,000 people then it is unlikely a WAFL Grand Final crowd in the future will reasonably exceed (say) 23,000 or 25,000 people even in fine weather. The largest of the traditional suburban grounds, such as Bassendean Oval, Fremantle Oval, East Fremantle Oval, and Lathlain Park have accommodated crowds of 20,000 people at home-and-away games before and could do so again. I accept that Claremont Oval and Leederville Oval are much smaller grounds now than they were 20 years ago and perhaps they could not accommodate 20,000 mostly standing-room patrons. I would appreciate if anyone could give me full capacity figures for those two grounds at the moment. I was at Claremont Oval for the 4 May 2013 clash with Perth Demons and much of the old north-east corner of the ground (the bank to the left of the scoreboard if viewed from the members' stand) seemed to have been removed or was in the process of being removed.

Lathlain Park: My fourth preference

The atmosphere at Fremantle Oval or Bassendean Oval with 20,000 mostly standing patrons would be amazing and give younger people an insight into what big home-and-away games were like in the WAFL in the 1960s, 1970s, and early-1980s. We would need a rule like the ground used for the Grand Final could not be the home ground for either of the two competing clubs. My preferred grounds (in order of preference) would be: 1 Fremantle, 2 Bassendean, 3 East Fremantle, 4 Lathlain, 5 Claremont, 6 Rushton Park, 7 Leederville, 8 Joondalup (Joondalup is last because part of my aim here is re-creating the old WAFL big-match atmosphere at a traditional WAFL ground). Please leave me your comments below.

[By Jack Frost, 24 September 2013.]

INTERVIEW: My interview with Caveman from the FOOTSCRAY NOT WESTERN BULLDOGS (FNWB) lobby group, by Jack Frost, 4 November 2012

The famous Western Oval in Barkly Street, Footscray, Melbourne

Jack Frost: Dear Caveman 

Thank you very much for agreeing to do an interview with me for the WAFL GOLDEN ERA website. I'm a football traditionalist who deplores the spread of hyper-capitalist logic and practices (as well as political correctness) into all codes of football over the past 20-30 years. I believe we have much in common! Here are the questions:

Authoritarian sign at Western Oval

Jack Frost Question 1: Before we move on to discuss FNWB can you tell us more about your personal background such as how and when you became a Footscray supporter?

Caveman: My reason for following Footscray is due to family members (especially my father and his siblings) being supporters of the club. I was born in Footscray and lived within walking distance (though admittedly a reasonably long walk) from the then named Western Oval. Our family moved away from Footscray before my 4th birthday, moving across the great divide of the river (the Maribyrnong River that is!). So although I was no longer living in Footscray, we weren’t that far away from there. I went with my father and his relatives to three games in 1975, but it was in 1976 that I began to fully understand the game and from that year I became a devoted fan of ‘Aussie Rules’. The next year (1977) was when I began to regularly attend games and this was to continue on for many years. The family thing was all from my father’s side; my mother didn’t come from Melbourne. The football team that my mother’s family had a connection to was Cananore. Guess what Cananore did during the 1940s - they CHANGED THEIR NAME! So if you know about the Cananore Football Club, then you will know what part of Australia my mother came from. So Footscray was the team that my father, his siblings, my cousins and most of my father’s mates followed. I decided at the age of 6 to NOT be a rebel and thus this decision of being loyal to family tradition has rewarded me with 37 odd years of supporting a club which has participated in NO Grand Finals!

So I follow Footscray for heritage and the (initial) residential allegiance. My father's two sisters who are both in their 80s still live in West Footscray, they went to the Hyde Street State School back in the 1930s and early 1940s. This is the school from [from which] the much remembered ‘Hyde Street Band’ [came from]. [They] would play before the game and at half time during home matches at Footscray. The family moved before my father could go there, so he went to the Geelong Road State School (now known as the Footscray Primary School) If Footscray’s nickname was something other than what it is i.e. the cats, hawks, demons, magpies, blues, power, etc I would still have followed them, the nickname ‘bulldogs’ had nothing to do with it. So when people ask me who I follow I always tell them - FOOTSCRAY. I never answer that question with the nickname ‘Bulldogs.’ I would hope that rival fans would answer that question in the same way - i.e. someone would answer with GEELONG or RICHMOND rather than ‘The Cats’ or ‘The Tigers’. 

JF2: Please briefly introduce for our readers the history and goals of FNWB.

Caveman: FNWB had four tasks - the top one is the main one though the others are connected to it. One of those (b) has been 90% achieved as explained below:

(a) Footscray name to return in whole for the club. To cut a long story short there is to be no amalgamated name like Footscray/Western Bulldogs- just Footscray as it was at Round 22 1996. This is not negotiable. Footscray and nothing else.

(b) Dispense with the ‘Yawning Cat’ uniform in favour for the pre 1975 jumper. This is the banded guernsey. This task has been achieved. Nevertheless the jumper is not completely correct as we want it. The 2012 onwards jumper requires a red collar and also for size of the red and white bands to be increased for it to be a proper Footscray jumper. However what it is now is certainly a marked improvement. So we can now campaign to just tinker with the uniform rather than prior to 2012 where we were fighting to overhaul it completely!

(c) The history of the Footscray Football Club must be recognised from our earliest days and not just from 1925. This was the year that Footscray moved competitions from the Victorian Football Association (VFA) to the Victorian Football League (VFL) The reason for this is to show the world that the Footscray Football Club did not just appear in 1925 out of nothing. We had been around since 1883 (possibly earlier- the original founding date is far from certain). Not only had the club been around for many years it had also been a very successful club. Nine senior premierships were won between 1898-1924. Next season will be 100 years since the 1913 Premiership. Hardly anyone is seemingly aware of this!
 

(d) This [next] task has never been aggressively lobbied for on FNWB - but this is still a longed for ambition. That is for a brand new exclusive home ground for the Footscray Football Club. We need a new stadium from where we would play our entire home games there, not just home used as a training base. This will be the hardest of all FNWB’s tasks to achieve. We just cannot continue with our present HOME game arrangements, it is financially crippling as well as depriving us of what we previously had- a decided home ground advantage. It is surely not a coincidence that Geelong’s three recent Premierships are connected to having a bona fide home ground.

JF3: I'm aware of your website and Facebook page. Is that all there is to FNWB or do you have campaigns and actions in the so-called "real world" as well?

Caveman: The FNWB website is not a major player in the crusading world, though for the message to get out there it really needs to increase input and publicity (for the cause though not for the actual site). The designated FNWB Facebook page was NOT created by FNWB. There have been a few different Facebook groups arguing for the Footscray name, some are no longer around and others have sprung up. The FNWB website would need to become more ebullient to tap into areas that may not know that it exists. 

JF4: How successful have you been in your relationships and networking with (a) FFC fans and (b) the FFC management?

Caveman: FNWB has some keen devotees who keep in regular contact, though FNWB is not an organised resistance or pressure group (well NOT YET anyway.)
 



Western Oval from Barkly St end

FNWB’s direct relationship with the club could be considered neither positive nor negative. The Western Bulldogs knows that FNWB exists, but there is certainly no direct “hotline” like relationship. FNWB rarely attacks the club over performances on the field. We never contact the club to complain about players, coaches’ etc - the Caveman personally doesn’t feel comfortable ‘bagging’ employees at the club, whether they are admin staff or players on the park. We never ring or email the club. The Caveman is a WB member (additionally as a social club one too) though in the first 7 years of the Western Bulldogs (1997-2003) I purposefully refused to be a member of the club.

So perhaps the club respects us for this - though I couldn’t tell you really if that is how they think. When FNWB is ‘venting the spleen’ it is directed at those who continue to deny the Footscray name. We realise that we can’t do much about performances on the ground, but we will fight 100% for the re-introduction of the Footscray name.

JF5: Are there realistic possibilities of a name change back to Footscray and/or a move back to the Western Oval for some or all home games? Can you give us an estimate of the % probability that these two events will happen? Which event is more likely?

Caveman: Yes -I believe that the Footscray name will return. This is coming from a committed pessimist! The issue is gaining additional publicity in social [media] and also the mainstream media. More people are questioning the supposed benefits of the name change. There is less likely to be any group fully committed and organised in fighting for maintaining the ‘Western Bulldogs’ name. The arguments used to resist changing the name back to Footscray have always been negative ones - the trashing of Footscray as a suburb/name etc. No one knows what Western is supposed to represent, the club always markets itself as The Bulldogs this and Bulldogs that- Western is really a pointless exercise.

This is more likely to happen than home games at the Western Oval. I would consider changing the name back to Footscray an 85% chance, yet the probability for some home games for Premiership points to be played at the Western Oval, I consider a 0% chance. The reason for this is that the result of the much heralded upgrade to the training facilities meant the encroachment into the areas which would hold spectators. The capacity of the ground has been decimated; the ground could not hold 10,000 people anymore. This is my reason for a new stadium to be built for the Footscray Football Club.

I cannot see the club surviving as Western Bulldogs in the long term. All that is required is for a change at the top of the AFL and should a more ‘pay your own way’ ideology come to power, then I believe that the club will be either merged or relocated out of Victoria. Now this could happen under Footscray. However if the new President Peter Gordon continues on for some time and refuses to change the name back many fans will not tip into their pockets again should the AFL decide to merge/ relocate us. 

JF6: What do you think of the FFC letters on the back of the current WBFC jersey? Is this a good move or just, to quote St Matthew from the Bible, "killing the prophets and then building their tombs"?

Caveman: I personally find having those three letters up there insulting, so definitely closer to St Matthew’s quote. The FFC acronym could mean all forms of crude or vulgar meanings to further trivialise or demean our 100 year old history. If they had to have it there they could have found room for 6 extra letters to make the 9 letter word FOOTSCRAY. It doesn’t make me feel any [more] closely connected to the club. If it is a ‘sorry but’ exercise then I am still not won over. 

JF7: Has FNWB got any formal or informal associations with other traditionalists groups in any code? As mentioned, Pave Jusup and Kova of the MCF supporter group at Melbourne Knights Soccer Club in Sunshine North support Footscray in the AFL and are aware of your campaign.

Caveman: FNWB has a very good rapport with the main player involved with the campaign to reinstate the genuine name, to another one of the clubs nicknamed ‘bulldogs’ in Australia [Canterbury-Bankstown in the NRL]. I have read many items about this situation north of the Murray River with Canterbury and it really is a parallel universe as to what went in on Sydney and here in Melbourne with both of us ‘bulldogs’ clubs. It is an interesting paradox that two keen fans from different clubs and codes with teams nicknamed bulldogs have an alliance, due to both wanting to ‘turn back’ from the influence of the ‘bulldogs’ nickname.

I don’t have a connection with the MCF supporter group, though it wouldn’t hurt to get involved with like minded people. 

JF8: What is your opinion on the Foxtel Cup?

Caveman: Unfortunately I haven’t followed it, for the reason connected to question 9 directly below.
 
JF9: What is your opinion of the current VFL?

Caveman: I can’t take it seriously, some old traditional VFA Clubs fighting on their own competing with both the seconds of Victorian AFL clubs and some old VFA clubs made up from the seconds of Victorian AFL clubs. It is too supercilious for me to follow.
 

I yearn for the old days of my team's reserves playing the curtain raiser against our opponent's seconds. It was fair as you were watching blokes all striving to play well enough to step up to the seniors next week. It also gave people a reason to turn up early and it would prevent the mad crowd rush into the ground 15 minutes before the first bounce. So teams with compromised line ups just don’t hold my interest. 

JF10: In my blog I call the old Barkly Street ground "Western Oval". Do you prefer this name or the "Whitten Oval" name (and give your reasons)?

Caveman: That is a hard one as I personally dislike both terms - but for different reasons.

Firstly I never liked the name Western Oval - though I never thought about it much. Anyhow when I did I always believed it was bland and uninteresting. However I was never sufficiently interested to actively campaign against it. To me ‘Such and Such Oval’ is like a private in the army - the lowest ranking, you have ‘Field Marshals’ and ‘Majors’ etc down to ‘Privates’ at the bottom. Similar here ‘Stadium’ down to ‘Park’ and ‘Oval’ is the ‘Private’.

Footscray FC support, Barkly St, Footscra

As for changing it - I didn’t agree with it being Whitten Oval- so for the reasons above I would have preferred Whitten Park.

However although I was happy that it was no longer the Western Oval, I didn’t support changing the name of the ground to a former player. Teddy Whitten is probably the best player that the club has had - yet the club had been around since 1883. Teddy Whitten was born in 1933, so the club had been in existence for 50 years before he was born. Teddy had a long continuous connection with the Footscray Football Club from 1951-1971. Yet from Round 22 1971 to his death in August 1995, he was not regularly involved with the club. That is not a criticism of Teddy, there is no reason why he would had to have been there in those last 25 years of his life. Nevertheless there was already the Ted Whitten Stand, so it seemed rather ridiculous having a E.J. Whitten Stand at the Whitten Oval. They should have changed the name of the E. J. Whitten Stand to something else. My main annoyance was that the board at the time (led at the time by the now returning President Peter Gordon) made this decision to change the name of the ground without consulting anyone (a similar scenario to David Smorgon changing the Footscray name to Western Bulldogs). I certainly don’t support arbitrary decisions by a small elite at Footscray! Again like the name change - there was no vote of members on the issue of changing the name of the ground.

JF11: Can you name for me the best Footscray players you have ever watched play.

Caveman: Kelvin Templeton is the best player I have seen, Doug Hawkins second, with Brian Royal and Chris Grant the next in line. That verdict may surprise some, but Templeton was a genius, his career cut short due to the effects of a horrific knee injury in a pre-season night game in 1981. He did play again but he was never the same dominant target man. Templeton ranks so highly for his sheer ability to take pack marks (as well as chest marks of course) and he was usually a very accurate kick. Doug Hawkins is probably the most under rated footballer of all time, his awareness was perfect, and his disposal and ability to read the play was second to none. He was a champion in 1978, yet non-Footscray people only learned this in the 1985 finals series. Brian Royal was full of courage, a rover that regularly kicked goals, he was excellent with both feet, he often kicked important goals in close games near the end. Chris Grant is a champion, but [I] would go for Templeton ahead of him for the reasons that Templeton kicked more bags of goals and was a stronger mark. Templeton regularly kicked 8’s and 9’s as well as the 15 of course in 1978; Chris Grant wasn’t as prolific in that regard, though he did play many games in the backline.

Other players that made me feel proud were Scott West, Andrew Purser, Simon Beasley, plus some that were only there for a small amount of time- like Les Bamblett, [and] Brad Hardie. I only caught the tail end of Laurie Sandilands, Bernie Quinlan and Gary Dempsey. From the late 1970’s and early 1980’s Stevie Power, Geoff Jennings and Ian Dunstan were also well loved.

We did well with the ‘secessionists’ that made their way to Footscray - Andrew Purser, Jimmy Sewell, Brad Hardie, Bruce Duperouzel, Tony Buhagiar and Daniel Southern. [JF comment: It's great to see so many Western Australian players listed here among the all-time Footscray greats.] We had some very good ‘free settlers’ as footballers Ray Huppatz, Neil Sachse, John Riley, Tony McGuinness plus the latter day ‘Western’ blokes. We all know what happened with Neil Sachse, John Riley was possibly one of the smartest blokes to play senior footy- he had one game the opening round of 1984, but returned home to play his footy as well as his job as a Nuclear Physicist in Adelaide. 

JF12: Have you had a chance to read much of the WAFL GOLDEN ERA  website? If so please give your comments and suggestions.

Caveman: It is a ripper - I have never liked the attitude of the (old) VFL of ‘We are the be all and end all’. Way too arrogant, plus there is the killing of the goose that laid the golden egg.
 

From a ‘political’ viewpoint, South Australians, Tasmanians, Victorians and Western Australians should be all mates - our race horses run anti-clockwise unlike the other two who play that different game. The VFL has had this attitude of swallowing up or attempting to devour ‘friendly’ competitions - the VFA, WAFL, SANFL. When I see West Coast and Adelaide Crows fans at games in Melbourne on a Saturday afternoon, I feel like telling them that they should be home watching their real team in action i.e. Subiaco, Claremont, Glenelg, Norwood etc.

I would like to see all West Coast and Fremantle home games to be played on a Friday night and Adelaide games to be played on a Sunday, so these four clubs can see their fans actually spend their Saturday afternoons doing what their Great- Grandfathers did - that being watch their ‘traditional teams’ on that Saturday afternoon. 

JF: Thank you very much for your time and we wish you the very best for your campaign.