NEW INTERVIEW: Neil Whyte (EFFC / Applecross) talks about East Fremantle FC's modern-day problems.

Jack Frost1 (WAFL Golden Era website): What do you think explains East Freo's lack of premiership success since 1998?

Neil Whyte1: Many used to say that it was the number of players lost to the draft into the AFL, but this is no longer an excuse as it has been going on for way too long. There was a great crop of talent when I was designing the EF Football Academy conditioning program which started in 2005. My theory is that, if there is significant talent in the pool, then surely there is a spillover that can be utilized naturally at League level. Then it is up to coaching staff to unify the group with a common goal, to set standards etc. What I noticed was the club was not functioning as a team. Staff were disconnected from one another. i.e. I didn't know what the Physio was doing or saying to players and vice versa...he wouldn't know what I was doing either. I was gobsmacked on my first day at the club seeing colts guys doing weight training in the gym before skills training on the oval. Now, in my world as a pro trainer, this is a cardinal sin just asking for trouble. It's a bit like somebody is running a study to see how many injuries could be sustained...how many hamstrings they could tear etc ha ha. The senior coach at the time did not see eye to eye with my approach...especially when I extracted the colts players out of the weights room who had terrible form...and they were being overseen by a strength and conditioning coach!!! David wanted the boys in the gym to put on muscle, but I had to explain to him it's not that simple...and there is a process...and requires an individual plan. Anyway, I don't know how the club has been functioning since I left...but I would say it is still struggling for cohesion based on the results. Overall though...I really don't understand how the club has struggled for many years now. I can appreciate how the facilities are a bit run down...but this has nothing to do with football ability and training...it does have something to do with a certain percentage of players maybe not wanting to play for EF if the facilities are not up to scratch or if people start talking. So I think it is important for the club to either upgrade the facilities or agree to co-lease Fremantle Oval which appears to be an option at the moment.

I would like to add that Australian Rules football training methods can often be 'old school', particularly at WAFL level. The methods I tried to introduce to EF were much more cutting edge, but they were not ready for it. AFL are much more responsive to change and growth. So I also think that, when clubs are not prepared for progressive change, they can be stuck in the same old same old. This is what I sensed at EFFC in terms of its conditioning for its players.

JF2: What was your experience doing the 1991-92 pre-season at EFFC under head coach Ken Judge?

NW2: I was attempting to make a comeback into football after missing five seasons of football. I was 23 years of age. I kept myself quite healthy and reasonably fit, so that was a help. I got into playing drums and music as a teen which tended to get in the way of my sport. I suppose I was gifted with good motor skill coordination that was developing a lot during my teens...I spent a lot of time playing sport (cricket and football) and athletics. I still knew a lot of guys and some of the staff knew me, i.e. Rod Lester Smith, who knew my older brother Greg, who looked destined for league when he copped some injuries. Greg was fairest and best in first year at Colts and was more than competitive against Brian Peake in intra-club scratch matches...in fact he beat him convincingly on at least one occasion. Anyway...so pre-season was going well until I badly sprained my ankle..it was nearly a break...took me a month till I could walk on it again. Ken couldn't understand how long it was taking. Pre-season was your typical Aussie rules 'old school' pre-season training. I couldn't believe that once we were made to do exercises on the concrete in a car park at Wireless Hill, including 'crunches'. I saw players' backs for the next week with red marks down their spines, ha ha. To cut a long story short, I nearly got in the squad after the intra-club scratch matches, but he advised me to play for Applecross Sunday League as they were based at EF Oval. He was going to watch games and, if I was performing, he said he would be prepared to pull me out of Sunday League. However, I never got my Mojo...I think missing five seasons made a significant difference to my feel and spatial awareness. I still had some skill..but it wasn't quite the same along with my fitness level. And I just couldn't get going at Sunday League and get any momentum. This was very disappointing seeing as I had been a strong Junior - I won the 17's competition best player and was runner up in 16's. I was frustrated because I saw players at the club that I used to play with and against in juniors...some had progressed significantly, others not so much.

Neil Whyte (aka Whitey).

JF3: Has East Freo lost that culture of success and how can it be brought back?

NW3: The club has certainly lost the culture of success, and yes, of course, they can get it back. The club has a magnificent history. Going back in history they had a low point in the 1960's for only about six seasons, probably their lowest results ever up until that point, before they bounced back at the beginning of the 1970's. It is a reminder of how successful and consistent the club has been since it started in 1898. In the 70's, 80's and 90's they were a solid consistent club. But it has been an absolutely woeful and humiliating period for best part of the last 20 years (since late 90's). I suppose I see this as a new era and nothing lasts forever mentality. The world is changing and evolving rapidly and I think EFFC is fully immersed within all of this change. I think Subiaco in recent years have developed a winning culture...and hopefully EFFC can develop a similar version in their own style and way in the future.

JF4: Is East Freo's zone good enough now given aging of the population in the traditional heartland suburbs plus multiculturalism?

NW4: It is hard to keep up with zoning because they keep changing it, ha ha. For sure, my area that I grew up in of Ardross, Applecross, Brentwood, Mt Pleasant...was beginning to struggle for numbers even when I was playing back in the 1980's. I couldn't believe that in 1978 Brentwood had an under 18's side, which my brother played for and won the competition fairest and best with. By 1982, Brentwood struggled for numbers and combined with Ardross to form Karoonda, which then eventually changed to what is now known as Booragoon. On another note, I never could work out or find out who was behind changing the quarter lengths from 25 min in 16's and 17's to 20 min which in recent years applies to 14's, 15's, 16's and 17's. It still makes no sense to me...surely 16's and 17's should have longer quarters??? Anyway, I feel the club has plenty of potential talent coming through...it is what you do with the talent that counts. We also have to remember the country regions as well, so numbers aren't the problem. I think every WAFL club will be going through similar circumstances. Of course there are more options for kids now. When I was a kid and teen, there was a strong tradition of Aussie Rules football in winter and cricket in the summer. And athletics was in between. Nowadays it is more diverse including soccer (Perth Glory inspired), basketball (Wildcats inspired), Rugby (Western force inspired), Baseball (Perth Heat inspired), extreme sports (X games inspired) etc. Multiculturalism has certainly played a part in this new movement in recent years with other sports. This has made it much tougher now for funding, volunteers and sponsorships across the board in all of these sports. We don't have a big enough population to allow all of these sports to thrive, and this has been proven to be true. However, there is one massive incentive for parents to send their kids to AFL...their pay is potentially much grander than other sports, and 40 players are listed on a senior list at AFL level. Other sports have much smaller numbers such as Cricket, Basketball, soccer, baseball etc. This is why the AFL have paid attention to attempting to make the game 'cleaner' and less violent to parents to encourage them to play Aussie rules. So the entire issue is quite complex now and extends much further and beyond simply 'aging suburbs'...however, yes, multiculturalism has played a significant role in a changing landscape.

[Note: Neil Whyte started the EF Football Academy in 2005; was the colts fitness coach; and was the fitness coach for development squads. He developed a time-line of development for 14-18-year-olds predominantly. After a stellar junior career (not a Stella career - that would be me!), he played a few colts games in 1984 whilst also playing 17's juniors at Melville. Then he completed pre-season 1984-85 when Graham Melrose was coaching the colts team. At the age of 23, he returned to EFFC and completed the 1991-92 pre-season with the senior team under coach Ken Judge before drifting across to Applecross in the then Sunday Football League.]

NEW INTERVIEW: WORKING CLASS CULTURE AND MECHANICAL HARE RACING IN SYDNEY - Max Solling speaks with Rex Walsh, 15/3/2015

Glebe Town Hall. This photograph is copyright Max Solling (used with permission).

Max Solling

WORKING CLASS CULTURE AND MECHANICAL HARE RACING IN SYDNEY

An Interview with historian and author Max Solling conducted by Rex Walsh

Max Solling is one of Australia’s leading urban and sports historians.

Born in Sydney, Max Solling has been a resident of Glebe since 1960. He was educated at Newington College (1955-1959) and the University of Sydney where he was awarded a University Sporting Blue in boxing and was Australian Universities boxing champion. In 1972 he completed his MA on the development of nineteenth-century Glebe and he was a founding editor of the Leichhardt Historical Journal. He is a qualified and practicing solicitor.

Publications

• Town and Country A Historical of the Manning Valley Halstead Press ISBN 9781920831561
• Grandeur and Grit: A History of Glebe (2007), Halstead Press, ISBN 1-920831-38-X
• The Boatshed on Blackwattle Bay (1993), Glebe Rowing Club, ISBN 0-646-14811-7
• Leichhardt: On the Margins of the City (1997) with Peter Reynolds, Allen & Unwin. (A social history of Leichhardt and the former municipalities of Annandale, Balmain and Glebe.)
• Contributor, Oxford Companion to Australian Sport
• Contributor, Oxford Companion to Australian Cricket

Awards

• Australian Sports Medal as a local sporting historian (2000) ^[3]
• Medal of the Order of Australia for service to the community, particularly through researching, recording and publishing the history of Glebe.

Max Solling is working on his latest book with a focus on: Working Class Culture and Mechanical Hare Racing in Sydney.  I spoke with Max regarding this latest project.

Rex Walsh: Max, what drew you to do a project on Mechanical Hare Racing?

Max Solling: It is closely connected to my passionate area of working class culture and this is why I decided to write my next book [on this topic]. Writing a history of mechanical hare racing is very much a cultural, social, economic and political enterprise. And it is closely connected with the circumstances and values of ordinary people during the inter-war years. The racing tracks were in inner city Sydney and offered a chance to win a wage from gambling and a night out for ordinary working class residents. These areas were occupied by residents, transients, boarding and lodging house populations. These years represented a time of militant trade union and working class mobilisation.

Working class men who breed greyhounds for racing were able to adopt an affordable hobby and way to earn a little more money.  Times were tough!

At the heart of the worker militancy and class consciousness lay a striving for order and predictability within a world that offered the working class very little. These activities helped to sustain close-knit communities amid the alienation of modern industrial society.

Mechanical Hare Racing represented an exciting and dramatic cheap form of entertainment that could easily be reached in the evening after work. “Going to the dogs” was distinctly working class. The high levels of unemployment (30 per cent in 1932) and a general fall in working hours only added to the popularity. The low and irregular wages of manual workers would ensure that people remained in their position in society.

The local rag, The Referee told readers that mechanical hare racing provides remarkable opportunities for small owners to achieve both fame and fortune on the track (4 March, 1931, p. 10). Greyhounds provided an opportunity for working class people to participate in a way that was not possible with other forms of racing such as horse racing. They could be breeders, owners, trainers and punters expressing their individuality and collective solidarity. Greyhounds became symbols of their owners' skill and ability and made those who raced and owned them sporting heroes.

[By Rex Walsh].

Rex Walsh

Rex Walsh Bio: 

Rex Walsh has qualifications in Business, Law and Education. He has been fortunate to work across many universities and has also taught in most units within his disciplines of Business and Law. He finds that this assists him greatly in his teaching of all units and in his ability to provide additional support to his students.

His particular areas of research interest involve ethics and contemporary issues in accounting particularly social and environmental reporting. He also works in industry and he is currently working for a community legal service and undertaking professional consultancy work.

As a very passionate teacher Rex Walsh has been fortunate enough to have his lecturing honored with several awards. He has been the recipient of the Curtin Excellence Award, CPA award, received several Commendations from Curtin for teaching excellence, and received commendations from Notre Dame University and nominations for excellence with CQU.

This photograph is copyrighted Max Solling (used with permission)

NEW INTERVIEW: My interview with Mark Whiting (East Fremantle supporter), 13/5/2015, by Kieran James

West Perth cheer squad at northern (city) end goals at Moss Street ground versus East Fremantle, 8 August 1981. Moss Street was always a hostile and intimidating place for away fans and West Perth fans put in a great effort to bring such numbers and passion to Moss Street this late in the 1981 season, a season when neither side made the final-four. The final score this day was: East Fremantle 21.17 (143) defeated West Perth 16.11 (107) and the attendance was 5,175 (source: WAFL Online). 

Kieran James: Thanks for agreeing to do this interview. I know you said to me modestly that "you are only a fan" but this is a website for the supporters and the view of a supporter is very important to us (although apparently not to the WAFL). First of all, can you tell me how you first became an East Fremantle supporter.

Mark Whiting ready for a beer

1) In 1992 I started following East Fremantle as my WAFL club for a few reasons. Main reason was the South African side of my family was mainly Natal Sharks (South African rugby) and that was the main sport I followed before Aussie Rules. East Fremantle also being nicknamed the Sharks and the closest ground I decided to have an interest in them.  However, it was only in 1997 that I decided to act on that interest and started attending matches and closely follow the Sharks.

KJ2: Do you also follow AFL and if yes do you have a favourite team?

2) Only a slight interest in the AFL.  I used to support Fremantle until they briefly aligned themselves with East Fremantle's port rival South Fremantle (around the turn of the millenium). I just couldn't support the Dockers at all, in fact gave away all my dockers gear. So I went looking for the club with the biggest East Freo contingent which at the time happened to be Hawthorn (6 players - Michael Collica, Craig Trelevan, Jonathon Hay, Brendan Krummel, Daniel Chick, Luke McPharlin,  plus the coach, Ken Judge). Remained Hawthorn ever since.

But my interest is only slight. WAFL has the true football feel. You feel like a part of a club, not just another bum on the seat. Go onto the ground at the breaks. No glorified prima donnas, just rough, old style football. And it's cheaper too.

KJ3: The East Fremantle culture of success (and gentlemanly success without rule-bending or excessive violence behind the play) has been an amazing constant factor for the past 100 years and it is remarkable how it still gets instilled in people in these days of the WAFL as a nursery for young players. Growing up in East Fremantle territory in the 1970s we were only too aware of the aura and power that surrounded the club. Even supporters of other clubs gave unconditional respect. In Jack Lee's East Fremantle history book years such as 1975 (when the club finished fifth) were regarded as terrible failures whereas at West Perth fifth spot was not seen as a disgrace or a catastrophe. What are your comments about this?

3) That statement is very true. I believe that amongst fans, officials, and players brought up in the district generally have the notion ingrained that anything less than finals is disappointing for the club. That and the huge investment of time and money put into East Fremantle's football district.

KJ4: What do you think of the move to return to the vertical panels or strips jersey similar to that worn in the 1977 and 1979 Grand Finals? It is now slightly confusing for outsiders at least as to whether the vertical or the horizontal stripes should be seen as the "classic" or "traditional" strip.

4) Going back to the three vertical stripes was a brilliant move. It was originally only intended for a clash strip in the Foxtel Cup. However it proved extremely popular with the fans, so much so that some were forking out $200 to buy one.

I believe that reintroducing it has started some of the younger fans into looking at the history of the club which is great as the more they read into the club's history the more passion they will feel for the club. In addition, the more of the younger generation passionately involved the more chance there is of long-term survival and not only that but the nostalgic feel for the older fans might rekindle some of their lost passion.

KJ5: What caused the current proposed move back to Fremantle Oval (a traditional home ground for Old Easts which is so traditional that no-one alive today can even remember them playing there)? I'm not an Old Easts supporter but I am a little worried that the literal fear that the Moss Street ground engendered in opposition players and fans will be lost. I always associate Moss Street with those bleak grey farm-style sheds at both ends of the ground, grey skies, cold and piercing ocean winds, and of course large defeats at the hands of the host club. What do you think of the move?

5) From what I hear both the City of Fremantle and the South Fremantle Football Club are both in favour of East Fremantle moving back. The City of Fremantle I believe is willing to invest money into the redevelopment of the oval and facilities should East Fremantle decide to move. At the moment there is a feasibility study being done and it should be out in May 2015. East Fremantle will look at it and then decide whether or not to progress. By progress meaning not accepting straight away, but looking further into it, possible vote on the matter, etc.

Personally, I am in favour of the move back to Fremantle Oval. Even though it will be sad to see us leave Moss Street, I believe there is not much of a future left there.

Scoreboard bank at Moss Street

Ground sharing will reduce maintainence costs, and I strongly believe the rivalry between the two port clubs will only get stronger.

Being in a busier area rather than stuck in the middle of an outer suburb will mean more exposure for East Fremantle to the general public, creating more interest and potentially better crowds and sales. Plus with the markets, pubs and restaurants nearby it will be more inviting for fans to attend the footy as a bigger day experience.

KJ6: Here is an important question which few people are asking. It is often said, usually cynically by AFL supporters online, that only the over-35s or over-40s are still passionate WAFL fans. How can we get more under-35s, such as yourself, to passionately support WAFL teams and regularly attend games?

6) I believe the key lies in the parents and other older family members of the under 35s telling them of who they barracked for in the WAFL, past WAFL memories, any family members playing for a team, showing any football memorabilia, but above all must show they have still have an interest in the WAFL and take the under 35s to games.

I am also a strong believer in leaving all public holidays for WAFL matches. That is no AFL matches in WA played on Good Friday, Anzac Day,  Foundation / WA Day. WAFL clubs have more to benefit from public holiday matches than either WA AFL club.

KJ7: What do you think explains East Fremantle's lack of success in the 21st century? Is it due to the suburban zone being trapped by South Fremantle in the south, Perth in the east, and the Swan River to the north plus an aging demographic in many areas in the East Fremantle zone? 

7) I believe it is partially to do with that reason. But as a whole, I am struggling to find an answer.

KJ8: Have you watched any of the premiership DVDs from the WAFL's Golden Era of the 1970s and 1980s?

8) No. I haven't watched any of the premiership DVDs. I might get around to it someday.

KJ9: What does the Fremantle Derby (the only real West Australian football derby) mean to you and to local supporters of both clubs? Accept no imitators.

9) The derby is always a big day for most. It is for most more than just a home and away game but also a chance to get one up on the old foe. The hatred between the two may have waned somewhat over the years but the importance of beating them still remains. It's the whole game day atmosphere of a derby that excites me, especially when it is in Fremantle with the pubs, restaurants, and surrounding streets flooded with people wearing their team colours.

KJ10: Have you got any comments about WAFL Golden Era website?

10) What I enjoy most about this page is that the information researched and topics discussed are unique. Chris Egan's article about the eastern suburbs and sport is a prime example.

KJ11: Thanks so much for the interview and your very insightful responses.

11) Thanks once again for the opportunity.

Another picture of West Perth cheer squad @ Moss Street northern end goals, 8 August 1981.

This picture shows supporters in the famous can bar at Lathlain Park during the last quarter of a Perth versus Swan Districts match, 2 July 2011. The fact that only the guy with the black hair and black-and-grey hoodie in the exact middle of this picture is probably an under-35 points to a problem with the demographic mix of WAFL supporters. What will happen to the WAFL in the future if it cannot attract the Under-35s to the grounds on a regular basis?

INTERVIEW: My interview with Caveman from the FOOTSCRAY NOT WESTERN BULLDOGS (FNWB) lobby group, by Jack Frost, 4 November 2012

The famous Western Oval in Barkly Street, Footscray, Melbourne

Jack Frost: Dear Caveman 

Thank you very much for agreeing to do an interview with me for the WAFL GOLDEN ERA website. I'm a football traditionalist who deplores the spread of hyper-capitalist logic and practices (as well as political correctness) into all codes of football over the past 20-30 years. I believe we have much in common! Here are the questions:

Authoritarian sign at Western Oval

Jack Frost Question 1: Before we move on to discuss FNWB can you tell us more about your personal background such as how and when you became a Footscray supporter?

Caveman: My reason for following Footscray is due to family members (especially my father and his siblings) being supporters of the club. I was born in Footscray and lived within walking distance (though admittedly a reasonably long walk) from the then named Western Oval. Our family moved away from Footscray before my 4th birthday, moving across the great divide of the river (the Maribyrnong River that is!). So although I was no longer living in Footscray, we weren’t that far away from there. I went with my father and his relatives to three games in 1975, but it was in 1976 that I began to fully understand the game and from that year I became a devoted fan of ‘Aussie Rules’. The next year (1977) was when I began to regularly attend games and this was to continue on for many years. The family thing was all from my father’s side; my mother didn’t come from Melbourne. The football team that my mother’s family had a connection to was Cananore. Guess what Cananore did during the 1940s - they CHANGED THEIR NAME! So if you know about the Cananore Football Club, then you will know what part of Australia my mother came from. So Footscray was the team that my father, his siblings, my cousins and most of my father’s mates followed. I decided at the age of 6 to NOT be a rebel and thus this decision of being loyal to family tradition has rewarded me with 37 odd years of supporting a club which has participated in NO Grand Finals!

So I follow Footscray for heritage and the (initial) residential allegiance. My father's two sisters who are both in their 80s still live in West Footscray, they went to the Hyde Street State School back in the 1930s and early 1940s. This is the school from [from which] the much remembered ‘Hyde Street Band’ [came from]. [They] would play before the game and at half time during home matches at Footscray. The family moved before my father could go there, so he went to the Geelong Road State School (now known as the Footscray Primary School) If Footscray’s nickname was something other than what it is i.e. the cats, hawks, demons, magpies, blues, power, etc I would still have followed them, the nickname ‘bulldogs’ had nothing to do with it. So when people ask me who I follow I always tell them - FOOTSCRAY. I never answer that question with the nickname ‘Bulldogs.’ I would hope that rival fans would answer that question in the same way - i.e. someone would answer with GEELONG or RICHMOND rather than ‘The Cats’ or ‘The Tigers’. 

JF2: Please briefly introduce for our readers the history and goals of FNWB.

Caveman: FNWB had four tasks - the top one is the main one though the others are connected to it. One of those (b) has been 90% achieved as explained below:

(a) Footscray name to return in whole for the club. To cut a long story short there is to be no amalgamated name like Footscray/Western Bulldogs- just Footscray as it was at Round 22 1996. This is not negotiable. Footscray and nothing else.

(b) Dispense with the ‘Yawning Cat’ uniform in favour for the pre 1975 jumper. This is the banded guernsey. This task has been achieved. Nevertheless the jumper is not completely correct as we want it. The 2012 onwards jumper requires a red collar and also for size of the red and white bands to be increased for it to be a proper Footscray jumper. However what it is now is certainly a marked improvement. So we can now campaign to just tinker with the uniform rather than prior to 2012 where we were fighting to overhaul it completely!

(c) The history of the Footscray Football Club must be recognised from our earliest days and not just from 1925. This was the year that Footscray moved competitions from the Victorian Football Association (VFA) to the Victorian Football League (VFL) The reason for this is to show the world that the Footscray Football Club did not just appear in 1925 out of nothing. We had been around since 1883 (possibly earlier- the original founding date is far from certain). Not only had the club been around for many years it had also been a very successful club. Nine senior premierships were won between 1898-1924. Next season will be 100 years since the 1913 Premiership. Hardly anyone is seemingly aware of this!
 

(d) This [next] task has never been aggressively lobbied for on FNWB - but this is still a longed for ambition. That is for a brand new exclusive home ground for the Footscray Football Club. We need a new stadium from where we would play our entire home games there, not just home used as a training base. This will be the hardest of all FNWB’s tasks to achieve. We just cannot continue with our present HOME game arrangements, it is financially crippling as well as depriving us of what we previously had- a decided home ground advantage. It is surely not a coincidence that Geelong’s three recent Premierships are connected to having a bona fide home ground.

JF3: I'm aware of your website and Facebook page. Is that all there is to FNWB or do you have campaigns and actions in the so-called "real world" as well?

Caveman: The FNWB website is not a major player in the crusading world, though for the message to get out there it really needs to increase input and publicity (for the cause though not for the actual site). The designated FNWB Facebook page was NOT created by FNWB. There have been a few different Facebook groups arguing for the Footscray name, some are no longer around and others have sprung up. The FNWB website would need to become more ebullient to tap into areas that may not know that it exists. 

JF4: How successful have you been in your relationships and networking with (a) FFC fans and (b) the FFC management?

Caveman: FNWB has some keen devotees who keep in regular contact, though FNWB is not an organised resistance or pressure group (well NOT YET anyway.)
 



Western Oval from Barkly St end

FNWB’s direct relationship with the club could be considered neither positive nor negative. The Western Bulldogs knows that FNWB exists, but there is certainly no direct “hotline” like relationship. FNWB rarely attacks the club over performances on the field. We never contact the club to complain about players, coaches’ etc - the Caveman personally doesn’t feel comfortable ‘bagging’ employees at the club, whether they are admin staff or players on the park. We never ring or email the club. The Caveman is a WB member (additionally as a social club one too) though in the first 7 years of the Western Bulldogs (1997-2003) I purposefully refused to be a member of the club.

So perhaps the club respects us for this - though I couldn’t tell you really if that is how they think. When FNWB is ‘venting the spleen’ it is directed at those who continue to deny the Footscray name. We realise that we can’t do much about performances on the ground, but we will fight 100% for the re-introduction of the Footscray name.

JF5: Are there realistic possibilities of a name change back to Footscray and/or a move back to the Western Oval for some or all home games? Can you give us an estimate of the % probability that these two events will happen? Which event is more likely?

Caveman: Yes -I believe that the Footscray name will return. This is coming from a committed pessimist! The issue is gaining additional publicity in social [media] and also the mainstream media. More people are questioning the supposed benefits of the name change. There is less likely to be any group fully committed and organised in fighting for maintaining the ‘Western Bulldogs’ name. The arguments used to resist changing the name back to Footscray have always been negative ones - the trashing of Footscray as a suburb/name etc. No one knows what Western is supposed to represent, the club always markets itself as The Bulldogs this and Bulldogs that- Western is really a pointless exercise.

This is more likely to happen than home games at the Western Oval. I would consider changing the name back to Footscray an 85% chance, yet the probability for some home games for Premiership points to be played at the Western Oval, I consider a 0% chance. The reason for this is that the result of the much heralded upgrade to the training facilities meant the encroachment into the areas which would hold spectators. The capacity of the ground has been decimated; the ground could not hold 10,000 people anymore. This is my reason for a new stadium to be built for the Footscray Football Club.

I cannot see the club surviving as Western Bulldogs in the long term. All that is required is for a change at the top of the AFL and should a more ‘pay your own way’ ideology come to power, then I believe that the club will be either merged or relocated out of Victoria. Now this could happen under Footscray. However if the new President Peter Gordon continues on for some time and refuses to change the name back many fans will not tip into their pockets again should the AFL decide to merge/ relocate us. 

JF6: What do you think of the FFC letters on the back of the current WBFC jersey? Is this a good move or just, to quote St Matthew from the Bible, "killing the prophets and then building their tombs"?

Caveman: I personally find having those three letters up there insulting, so definitely closer to St Matthew’s quote. The FFC acronym could mean all forms of crude or vulgar meanings to further trivialise or demean our 100 year old history. If they had to have it there they could have found room for 6 extra letters to make the 9 letter word FOOTSCRAY. It doesn’t make me feel any [more] closely connected to the club. If it is a ‘sorry but’ exercise then I am still not won over. 

JF7: Has FNWB got any formal or informal associations with other traditionalists groups in any code? As mentioned, Pave Jusup and Kova of the MCF supporter group at Melbourne Knights Soccer Club in Sunshine North support Footscray in the AFL and are aware of your campaign.

Caveman: FNWB has a very good rapport with the main player involved with the campaign to reinstate the genuine name, to another one of the clubs nicknamed ‘bulldogs’ in Australia [Canterbury-Bankstown in the NRL]. I have read many items about this situation north of the Murray River with Canterbury and it really is a parallel universe as to what went in on Sydney and here in Melbourne with both of us ‘bulldogs’ clubs. It is an interesting paradox that two keen fans from different clubs and codes with teams nicknamed bulldogs have an alliance, due to both wanting to ‘turn back’ from the influence of the ‘bulldogs’ nickname.

I don’t have a connection with the MCF supporter group, though it wouldn’t hurt to get involved with like minded people. 

JF8: What is your opinion on the Foxtel Cup?

Caveman: Unfortunately I haven’t followed it, for the reason connected to question 9 directly below.
 
JF9: What is your opinion of the current VFL?

Caveman: I can’t take it seriously, some old traditional VFA Clubs fighting on their own competing with both the seconds of Victorian AFL clubs and some old VFA clubs made up from the seconds of Victorian AFL clubs. It is too supercilious for me to follow.
 

I yearn for the old days of my team's reserves playing the curtain raiser against our opponent's seconds. It was fair as you were watching blokes all striving to play well enough to step up to the seniors next week. It also gave people a reason to turn up early and it would prevent the mad crowd rush into the ground 15 minutes before the first bounce. So teams with compromised line ups just don’t hold my interest. 

JF10: In my blog I call the old Barkly Street ground "Western Oval". Do you prefer this name or the "Whitten Oval" name (and give your reasons)?

Caveman: That is a hard one as I personally dislike both terms - but for different reasons.

Firstly I never liked the name Western Oval - though I never thought about it much. Anyhow when I did I always believed it was bland and uninteresting. However I was never sufficiently interested to actively campaign against it. To me ‘Such and Such Oval’ is like a private in the army - the lowest ranking, you have ‘Field Marshals’ and ‘Majors’ etc down to ‘Privates’ at the bottom. Similar here ‘Stadium’ down to ‘Park’ and ‘Oval’ is the ‘Private’.

Footscray FC support, Barkly St, Footscra

As for changing it - I didn’t agree with it being Whitten Oval- so for the reasons above I would have preferred Whitten Park.

However although I was happy that it was no longer the Western Oval, I didn’t support changing the name of the ground to a former player. Teddy Whitten is probably the best player that the club has had - yet the club had been around since 1883. Teddy Whitten was born in 1933, so the club had been in existence for 50 years before he was born. Teddy had a long continuous connection with the Footscray Football Club from 1951-1971. Yet from Round 22 1971 to his death in August 1995, he was not regularly involved with the club. That is not a criticism of Teddy, there is no reason why he would had to have been there in those last 25 years of his life. Nevertheless there was already the Ted Whitten Stand, so it seemed rather ridiculous having a E.J. Whitten Stand at the Whitten Oval. They should have changed the name of the E. J. Whitten Stand to something else. My main annoyance was that the board at the time (led at the time by the now returning President Peter Gordon) made this decision to change the name of the ground without consulting anyone (a similar scenario to David Smorgon changing the Footscray name to Western Bulldogs). I certainly don’t support arbitrary decisions by a small elite at Footscray! Again like the name change - there was no vote of members on the issue of changing the name of the ground.

JF11: Can you name for me the best Footscray players you have ever watched play.

Caveman: Kelvin Templeton is the best player I have seen, Doug Hawkins second, with Brian Royal and Chris Grant the next in line. That verdict may surprise some, but Templeton was a genius, his career cut short due to the effects of a horrific knee injury in a pre-season night game in 1981. He did play again but he was never the same dominant target man. Templeton ranks so highly for his sheer ability to take pack marks (as well as chest marks of course) and he was usually a very accurate kick. Doug Hawkins is probably the most under rated footballer of all time, his awareness was perfect, and his disposal and ability to read the play was second to none. He was a champion in 1978, yet non-Footscray people only learned this in the 1985 finals series. Brian Royal was full of courage, a rover that regularly kicked goals, he was excellent with both feet, he often kicked important goals in close games near the end. Chris Grant is a champion, but [I] would go for Templeton ahead of him for the reasons that Templeton kicked more bags of goals and was a stronger mark. Templeton regularly kicked 8’s and 9’s as well as the 15 of course in 1978; Chris Grant wasn’t as prolific in that regard, though he did play many games in the backline.

Other players that made me feel proud were Scott West, Andrew Purser, Simon Beasley, plus some that were only there for a small amount of time- like Les Bamblett, [and] Brad Hardie. I only caught the tail end of Laurie Sandilands, Bernie Quinlan and Gary Dempsey. From the late 1970’s and early 1980’s Stevie Power, Geoff Jennings and Ian Dunstan were also well loved.

We did well with the ‘secessionists’ that made their way to Footscray - Andrew Purser, Jimmy Sewell, Brad Hardie, Bruce Duperouzel, Tony Buhagiar and Daniel Southern. [JF comment: It's great to see so many Western Australian players listed here among the all-time Footscray greats.] We had some very good ‘free settlers’ as footballers Ray Huppatz, Neil Sachse, John Riley, Tony McGuinness plus the latter day ‘Western’ blokes. We all know what happened with Neil Sachse, John Riley was possibly one of the smartest blokes to play senior footy- he had one game the opening round of 1984, but returned home to play his footy as well as his job as a Nuclear Physicist in Adelaide. 

JF12: Have you had a chance to read much of the WAFL GOLDEN ERA  website? If so please give your comments and suggestions.

Caveman: It is a ripper - I have never liked the attitude of the (old) VFL of ‘We are the be all and end all’. Way too arrogant, plus there is the killing of the goose that laid the golden egg.
 

From a ‘political’ viewpoint, South Australians, Tasmanians, Victorians and Western Australians should be all mates - our race horses run anti-clockwise unlike the other two who play that different game. The VFL has had this attitude of swallowing up or attempting to devour ‘friendly’ competitions - the VFA, WAFL, SANFL. When I see West Coast and Adelaide Crows fans at games in Melbourne on a Saturday afternoon, I feel like telling them that they should be home watching their real team in action i.e. Subiaco, Claremont, Glenelg, Norwood etc.

I would like to see all West Coast and Fremantle home games to be played on a Friday night and Adelaide games to be played on a Sunday, so these four clubs can see their fans actually spend their Saturday afternoons doing what their Great- Grandfathers did - that being watch their ‘traditional teams’ on that Saturday afternoon. 

JF: Thank you very much for your time and we wish you the very best for your campaign.

INTERVIEW: My interview with Chris Egan (Peel Thunder and Perth Glory supporter, Perth Glory historian, and former WAFL radio commentator, age 25), by Kieran James, 14/8/2012

"Come on you Glory Boys!!" Chris Egan - Peel Thunder and Perth Glory supporter, Perth Glory historian, and former WAFL radio commentator. Chris's father Stewart Egan played five games and kicked two goals for Swan Districts in its 1982 premiership season.

My interview with Chris Egan (Peel Thunder and Perth Glory supporter, Perth Glory historian, and former WAFL radio commentator, age 25), Mandurah, Western Australia, 14 August 2012, by  Kieran James

Chris Egan on Peel Thunder Football Club: “Despite our crowds having nothing much to celebrate, the crowds are not far from the WAFL average. You have a loyal base of supporters. The club continues to exist and it has been resistant to hindrances. It shows it is a club of resistance and fight that will not lie down although it had many aspects that led to its current status in the game”.

Chris Egan on young WAFL supporters aged 13-30 years: “Now the young people are looking at WAFL as an entertainment product and they don’t get as emotionally involved. A lot of my mates are emotionally involved in their WAFL clubs. It depends on what circle of friends you are in”.

Chris Egan on Perth Football Club supporters: “Perth fans are very nostalgic!”

  

Rushton Park, Mandurah 

Kieran James Question 1: Hi Chris, thanks very much for agreeing to meet with me and for the tour we just did of the Peel Thunder home stadium Rushton Park. First of all can you tell me how you became a Peel Thunder and WAFL supporter?

Chris Egan Question 1: I was always interested. My dad [Stewart Egan] took me to the first Peel Thunder game in 1996. A year or two before that (I was six) my dad took me to South Fremantle versus West Perth. The year before Peel joined the WAFL there was a South Fremantle game here. My dad and granddad would take me to Rushton Park. I would request to go with my dad and granddad to all Rushton Park [local league] games. My granddad lived in Morfitt Street near the ground; I was extremely close to him. I would go to three to four [Peel Thunder] home games a year from 1996 to 2004. During my first year of uni, 2005, there was an email [I received] saying “would you like to do around-the-grounds reporting in WAFL?” At 990AM. I would get the stats for the WAFL games. I went to all the WAFL grounds in the comp. After around-the-grounds, I was assistant producer for the radio.

KJ: So what was your perception about the WAFL games you saw?

Chris E: I found it was more enjoyable. I had issues with the unfairness of the AFL draw. It was manipulated to bigger clubs and crowds. I found I was drawn to the WAFL style of play. It was less scientific. I gradually got interested in the football through that; I got more enjoyment from the WAFL [than from AFL].

One of my friends, a Dockers’ and Eagles’ member, I got involved in around-the-grounds reporting. My mate, a South Fremantle supporter and Perth Glory fan, would do around-the-grounds for South Fremantle. I got other friends involved. These people were doing sports management or journalism in uni. I grabbed a bigger group going to the WAFL games and it developed a social side as well. I was around-the-grounds before I was associate producer.

That was how I got involved. My dad was a Swan Districts fan and former player so there was a WAFL connection in the family. [KJ note: Chris's father Stewart Egan played five games and kicked two goals for Swan Districts in its 1982 premiership season. At a weaker club he may have played more senior league football.] He is now a Peel Thunder member; he hasn’t missed a game this year. AFL is still his main priority but if his son was not interested in WAFL he would not be. I have friends all through the WAFL including my past lecturer who I go to games with. I have a wide social group.

Chris Egan supporting Perth Glory FC

KJ: The social group is at Peel Thunder games?

Chris E: I don’t have as large a group at Peel Thunder as when I go to away games as my mates are opposition fans. I have been to every Peel Thunder game this year except for three when I was either going to A-League [soccer] finals outside Perth or when the Peel Thunder and Perth Glory starting times clashed.

KJ Question 2: What are some of the most memorable WAFL games you have seen?

Chris E Question 2: My most memorable game was in the year [2002] when Danny Wells played. It poured with rain in the first half. It was the most memorable game, it was 2002. Danny Wells completely dominated the game. It was the year Allistair Pickett won the Sandover Medal and Wells finished third. [JF note: Allistair Pickett won the 2002 Sandover Medal with 33 votes. In 2004 he won his second Sandover Medal whilst playing for Subiaco.] We were eight goals behind at three-quarter time...

KJ: Playing against whom?

Chris E: It was versus East Fremantle at Rushton Park [JF note: Round 18, 3 August 2002, Peel Thunder 13.17 (95) d East Fremantle 13.13 (91)]. This year we also beat Claremont at Claremont Oval [KJ note: Round 11, 2 June 2012, Peel Thunder 14.14 (98) d Claremont 11.18 (84)]. Also in 2010 I remember we beat West Perth by seven goals which stopped them getting into the finals [KJ note: Round 8, 9 May 2010, Peel Thunder 16.17 (113) d West Perth 11.6 (72), Rushton Park]. We played an amazing game of football.

Chris Egan supporting P Glory (centre, white t-shirt)

KJ Question 3: Do you follow the AFL as well as following WAFL?

Chris E Question 3: I think I do watch games still. I am still an Eagles’ supporter but I don’t feel upset when they lose. I don’t have a strong emotional connection to them. It does not affect my feelings when they lose. I’m probably more of a band-wagon jumper. I hope they do well but I don’t get upset if they don’t. This is not my attitude in relation to other teams I support.

KJ: What do you think of the AFL leadership and strategic direction? You know I have made a few comments about this on the website...

Chris E: I don’t like Demetriou. I think it [AFL] has been way too concerned about getting the largest crowds although they have changed it in the last year. I think GWS [Greater Western Sydney] is going to be a financial disaster. First-year crowds are below what they expected. They said they had a 20-year plan but it needs to be revisited. Sydney Swans also does not have a large supporter base. Other codes are not spending nearly as much as AFL in Sydney. Sydney Swans have a base support of only 20,000. They got 13,000 to one game in inclement weather this year. There has been an over-emphasis on the non-traditional states over the traditional states. Port Adelaide Power is doing poorly because the players are going to regions which can’t create their own players. Other clubs are weaker too.

KJ: And the AFL has, very disappointingly, allowed State of Origin football to die...

Chris E: You would have a lot of state [football] interest if players could play where they choose rather than the draft. Victoria versus The Rest did not make many people happy except for the Victorians.

KJ Question 4: Can you give us your comments about Peel Thunder’s on-field performance since its WAFL debut and is it correct to label the club as a failure given it has never played finals?

Chris E Question 4: I said this to you before [during our walk around Rushton Park earlier in the day]. There are multiple factors involved. We had our best players siphoned off. We lost Pickett two seasons after his Sandover Medal win and Wells that season. Pickett won four premierships with Subiaco. We lost our best coach Peter German that year. Our midfield was ripped out. The club never had concessions to start with and had no revenue to improve facilities. When Peel came in there was dilapidated facilities and no funding unlike with West Perth at Arena Joondalup. Building a new grandstand was so important for the club and effort was put into this rather than into the on-field side. We are constantly rebuilding. We didn’t have the greatest administration.

Mandurah is not a huge hub of employment, we have three training bases, Mandurah has higher unemployment, and it is not easy to attract players. We lost Rory and Brock O’Brien to East Fremantle, two integral players. Good players often leave to achieve success. David Hynes (Fremantle Dockers) got injured for many years. Two full-time coaches – Garry Hocking and Chris Waterman – were not there for the club but for the [prospects of future] AFL appointments. We have geographic issues, player issues (Hayden Ballantyne, David Wells – they are recognized as the best talent to come into the WAFL in the last ten years). Once we have good players they are wanted by other clubs who can give them better employment closer to uni.

KJ: Being based in Mandurah then is somewhat of a double-edged sword?

Chris E: Yes and the AFL knew this was a fast-growth area. AFL wanted a team here. South Fremantle did not look after the area as well as they should have.

KJ: So you regard the future of Peel Thunder Football Club in the WAFL as now assured?

Chris E: The talent development for the AFL is the main reason the club will continue.

KJ: As a feeder club for WAFL / AFL?

Chris E: It is not so much a feeder club but it’s why the club was admitted ... and the club is producing good players. If you take the club away it is to the detriment of all WAFL clubs. As long as the players are in the comp [somewhere] then the entertainment is there.

I have heard we are paying too much to Victorian and South Australia players. Having impediments for success in 1996 has created revolving issues for the club. A bad season creates further worse seasons due to lack of money and attendances. Success breeds success as they say.

KJ: So, returning to our original question, would it be fair to call Peel Thunder a failure given it has never reached the finals?

Chris E: For me I think the impediments prevented Peel Thunder from being anything other what it is today. If you don’t invest in expansion clubs they won’t do well. You can see it in NSL [former National Soccer League, 1977-2003], A-League, and NRL. Despite our crowds having nothing much to celebrate, the crowds are not far from the WAFL average. You have a loyal base of supporters. The club continues to exist and it has been resistant to hindrances. It shows it is a club of resistance and fight that will not lie down although it had many aspects that led to its current status in the game.

KJ Question 5: Can you tell me more about the Peel Thunder supporters?

Chris E Question 5: There are a few hardcore supporters. You have different audiences at different games – more at the Fremantle away games [than at away games further away from Mandurah]. A dozen or so would go to every game. Fremantle Oval [versus South Fremantle] would get 200-250 away supporters especially if Peel Thunder is in good form. It can be 20-30 for a more distant away game. I’m probably one of the few dedicated fans of my age. I don’t think there is anyone else aged in their mid-20s who will dedicate themselves to go to every game. Those who do [go to every game] are 45-60 years, middle-class – they have a son or nephew in Colts and they will stay for the league game. Only a few of us will go to every game that don’t have a [family or friendship] connection to the players.

KJ: Is there any cheer squad at Peel Thunder?

Chris E: There is one guy who will shout in front of the Members at home games and he will sing “Let’s go, Thunder, let’s go” and really gee them up. There is no cheer squad. He has a Docker tattoo on his arm as well. He is well known within the club; he does create that chant and get everyone involved. He does get the whole crowd involved. He does not stand behind the goals. There is no other cheer squad.

Patrick Mirosevich, SFFC cheer squad

KJ Question 6: What cheer squads presently exist in the WAFL as far as you are aware? As you know, this WAFL Golden Era website focuses on the mid-1980s when Perth, Claremont, West Perth, and Subiaco had sizeable cheer squads.

Chris E Question 6: There is really only one cheer squad which has flags and that is South Fremantle cheer squad in my opinion. [KJ note: See my interview with Patrick Mirosevich of South Fremantle Football Club cheer squad on this website.] There is one guy at Subiaco but there is not an organization of people who sit in one place with chants and flags. Only South Fremantle has this group.

At Swan Districts under the beer shed especially in bigger games there is lots of chanting including soccer themes. They are more vocal, they don’t have flags. [JF note: This group is called the Abuse Crew.] I went to East Perth versus Swan Districts; they had a lot of chants under the tin roof.

KJ: Is this tin roof in the Members’ area?

Chris E: There is a public bar; it is not restricted to members. They were very loud. They were quite organized. They had their own shirts. I was told one of the Perth Glory Shed members was in that group which is another link between WAFL and Perth Glory.

South Fremantle cheer squad has six main members; half are regular Perth Glory fans that will go to [Perth Glory] home and away games. The South Fremantle cheer squad will go to the end where South Fremantle is kicking. Their ages are 21, 28, 22, 15, one in his fifties, and one of the dads in his fifties as well. They have flags as well as chants.

There is another one, East Fremantle. They stand behind the goals, mostly at the southern end. They are all aged between 20 and 40. It varies in numbers. They have 10-15 people at other grounds [for away games]. One guy called Hank has a flag and he is a Glory supporter. The cheer squad know him and like him but he does not sit in the same vicinity as them. He is an aboriginal guy.

SFFC cheer squad - Patrick second left, Wayne far right

KJ Question 7: In various places on the WAFL Golden Era website I have said how the WAFL needs to attract more people in the 13-30 years age range. These are the people with no personal experience of the pre-West Coast era in Perth. However, as I’m now living in Queensland and in recent years have only attended Lathlain Park games I may be getting the wrong impression of WAFL overall. What are your comments on this?

Chris E Question 7: I see that there is quite a few that will go. [However] I don’t see many at Rushton Park. At East Fremantle, South Fremantle, and Claremont you get quite a few males in that age range and a few females who have boyfriends playing in that game. In terms of the supporters and members some are the older base. The Claremont after-match presentation had an average age of 75 when I was there! Younger ones would sit on the grassed banks [at Claremont Oval] and regard it [WAFL] as a valid entertainment option. They see it that they can pick and choose. Older ones see it as a loyalty, fan, and pride issue. Younger ones are attracted but they see it differently as cheap entertainment.

KJ: So because I have seen recent WAFL games only at Lathlain Park do you think I’m not getting an accurate picture of the situation across the WAFL?

Chris E: I have not seen as many [younger ones] at Lathlain Park. At East Fremantle Oval you will see some trendy young people. At the Foxtel Cup Grand Final [2012], Claremont versus Werribee, there were many young trendy people there.

SFFC cheer squad, Patrick has red jacket & flag

KJ: What was the total crowd at that game? I think the Foxtel Cup is really a great development. I went to the Claremont versus Port Adelaide Magpies game last year...

Chris E: The total estimated crowd was 1,500 on a Thursday night. You will see at WAFL your young Aussie mates who just want to hang out for the day.

KJ: In one comments piece on the WAFL Golden Era website the author suggested free admission to WAFL games for children and concession pass holders and for full-time students less than 25 years. What is your opinion of this idea?

Chris E: The WAFL does a lot of marketing for families but the student and young adult market is quite competitive. I don’t think you need free adults, you need social media. I told Peel Thunder they are telling people things [online] but not engaging with their community or understanding what they want. Are they really looking at their demographics? Resources for social media can be enhanced. I don’t think you need to devalue your product by free entries. There are 2-for-1 concession entry tickets in the Football Budget. The WAFC should really promote social media although it has improved this year. Peel Thunder says there are a lack of resources and funding to utilize social media more extensively. They have the opportunities but they don’t have the time and people to take advantage of it. You don’t want much central direction [of social media]. The WAFC could direct money to clubs for social media.

KJ: I have been posting links to WAFL Golden Era posts on the Facebook pages of the WAFL and the various clubs. South Fremantle, East Perth, West Perth, and Perth seem to have the most active and popular Facebook pages of all the clubs.

Chris E: Perth fans are very nostalgic!

Mike B. & Kieran J., WP cheer squad founders, 1984-86

KJ: Yes!

Chris E: Some of these regions, such as Claremont and Peel Thunder could have pensioner days or include a [match] ticket with a lunch / dinner or have a bus in from the country zone. They do this a lot on the east coast. There are opportunities to expand the supporter base in all demographics. It is business as usual [unfortunately] for some WAFL clubs. There are further factors to increase growth. Social media will not grab everyone. It is only one factor to bring supporters in. Now the young people are looking at [WAFL] as an entertainment product and they don’t get as emotionally involved. A lot of my mates are emotionally involved in their WAFL clubs. It depends on what circle of friends you are in.

KJ Question 8: What do you think should be the WAFL’s strategic direction? In particular do you think there should be new expansion teams perhaps based in country regions? An author wrote on this website about the Intrust Super Cup model of active expansion. Intrust Super Cup is the Queensland second-tier rugby-league competition which is the local equivalent of the WAFL being one tier below NRL.

Chris E Question 8: Strategic direction of the WAFL? One area I am interested in is regionalization. West Perth is trying to attract the British element in their area by the Union Jack on their jersey. However, this may offend or alienate people who don’t see the Union Jack as a positive thing...

KJ: Yes we may need to create a new club called West Perth Celtic [smiles].

The over-30s crowd at Lathlain Park, 2/7/11

Chris E: Yes [also smiles]. There are better ways to do it than West Perth has done. Peel Thunder can link in better to its region. A bus from Waroona [to Peel Thunder home games] two to three times a year could grab the youth. Clubs need to look at the community and demographics and aim the club in that direction. They need to have regard for other cultures. West Perth did not do that as some people see the Union Jack as an offensive emblem.

There is a big debate at East Fremantle as to whether they should move to Fremantle Oval and whether Claremont should move to the Agricultural Showgrounds. It is cheaper for Claremont to redevelop their own ground. For East Fremantle it comes down to politics between them and South Fremantle regarding the leasing arrangements. I don’t know how keen South Fremantle is about East Fremantle coming to Freo Oval. East Fremantle wanted 50% of the gate and alcohol sales if the Foundation Day Derby was to be played at Freo Oval each year but South Fremantle said “no”. It depends on their individual situation as to how they think the club can best grow. East Fremantle Council presently get one-third of the gate and they may not want East Fremantle there. The land [East Fremantle Oval] is owned by the council and they could make a lot of money by selling it off. They are using financial penalties to drive them out, subtle means. I have a feeling South Fremantle do not want them there [at Fremantle Oval]. I know an East Fremantle fan who does not mind if they move back to their original home.

KJ: What do you think of the idea of expanding the WAFL by bringing in new teams?

Chris E: I think you really have to see whether a town can sustain a new club as two new AFL clubs are draining players out of South Australia and Western Australia. You don’t want to dilute the playing standard. A population of around seven million [i.e. Victoria, South Australia, and Western Australia] is supporting eighteen AFL clubs and bringing in other clubs will only increase the dilution of the WAFL and SANFL. Now the zoning system has a [WAFL] club in every part of the metro area. Before Peel was involved it was easier to miss players because of the size of population of the zone. The club represents 250,000 people from Rockingham to Waroona. You are [now] less likely to miss young players out.

KJ: What do you think about a team based in Bunbury? The town has produced some fine WAFL footballers over the years...

Chris E: I can’t see Bunbury getting in unless they have a population of 100,000 and there is a desire to be in the comp. The mistake is wanting a team in rather than they want to be in. The SWFL [South West Football League] clubs are paying as much as the WAFL clubs. Carey Park is upgrading their facility. It may be that people there are happy to have their own league. I will wait to see whether they want to be in it and have a strong business case. Swan Districts relies on a turnover of AUD4.6 million. You need a large turnover to compete with the WAFL clubs.  You need to turnover this amount of cash to compete at the top end.

Danny Wells (Peel Thunder & North Melbourne)

KJ: How about a new team in the Goldfields region?

Chris E: I think Goldfields may be a bit far away. Being brought up in the Pilbara it has a very transitional community in the mining sector. Lack of crowds in Canberra shows transitional communities are not able to sustain clubs. I haven’t actually been there [Goldfields] so I can’t comment much. Being seven hours from Perth may not make it a functioning addition to the WAFL and the population may not be able to support it. Also, like Bunbury, do they want to be in it or not?

KJ Question 11: What do you think of the WAFL’s prospects for the future?

Chris E Question 11: I see it in a positive limelight obviously. Since I’ve been going to the WAFL from 2005 I’ve noticed a big change in the size of crowds. I went to a final with 11,000 crowd at Swan Districts [preliminary final versus East Perth on 11 September 2010 which drew a crowd of 11,251 people] and a Foundation Day Derby crowd of 11,000 at East Fremantle Oval [Monday 1 June 2009 game which drew 11,051 people to East Fremantle Oval]. That experience at Bassendean Oval was quite amazing. It felt like a really big game. Half the crowd was Swan Districts, half was East Perth. You had merchandise sales for both teams. People were still coming into the ground at quarter-time. The same thing happened at East Fremantle Oval. I think people there did not expect that. I think when you have already smashed [i.e. exceeded] people’s expectations of what the WAFL will become there is the ability to continue to smash expectations. Western Australians now see WAFL in a totally different limelight from when it was Westars Rules. I think now Dennis Cometti wants to protect the WAFL and John Worsfold says he does not want to ruin the WAFL comp and he will leave it [entry of AFL reserves teams into the WAFL] to the WAFL presidents.

There is real camaraderie across the nine clubs. There is more government funding. It is becoming increasingly popular for corporates. Since we left Subiaco Oval crowds are rising for finals. People are not seeing the WAFL as on its death-bed like in the Westar era. People are happy to go to it as an entertainment option. The price has risen but people are still going. It is not cheap now but the demand has shown itself to be inelastic. It has shown you don’t need pokies to sustain your footy clubs. SANFL clubs rely on poker machines but WAFL clubs have been able to stay within their market demands and not [have their profitability] distorted by pokies.

Danny Wells (PTFC & NMFC)

KJ: Do you expect WAFL attendances will rise further?

Chris E: I think it depends on how WAFL clubs go about it. There is an issue where we have Claremont always on top of the ladder as they don’t have a large supporter base. Top of the ladder clashes get bigger crowds whereas in the early-2000s [this did not happen because] there was not the hype. Before you would get only an extra 200 but now crowds are doubling. The Subiaco versus West Perth day [11 August 2011] was International Community Day with the Union Jack, they got 6,000 [official attendance 6,044 according to WAFL Online]. They will regard it as a success and it may make that Union Jack continue. If they get 6,000 for that they may continue to go in the same direction as Central District Bulldogs [SANFL club which has an upfront British image].

KJ Question 12: Lastly, can I ask for your comment on WAFL Golden Era website and have you suggestions for how we can expand or improve it?

Chris E Question 12: I think it’s good. My dad played in the 1980s, my grandpa watched games in the 1980s. It’s good to have an understanding of what they had. To have that history recorded is invaluable to those people such as me who were not around to experience it.

KJ: Possible future directions for our website?

Chris E: No, I have no suggestions. You should just build it as you see fit. I will let you decide upon future direction. Whatever you do to create added information and interest in the WAFL is a good thing.

KJ: OK, thanks very much for your time Chris and for your very detailed and insightful observations about many topics relating to WAFL football. It is great in particular to talk to a dedicated, new-generation WAFL fan in his twenties such as yourself.

Chris E: Thank you!        

Kieran James (left) and Chris Egan @ Cicerello's Mandurah, 14 August 2012

Chris Egan (left) and friend Reuben @ Dorrien Gardens Soccer Ground, West Perth, watching Perth Soccer Club play in the State League, August 2012

Chris Egan @ Rushton Park, Mandurah, home of Peel Thunder Football Club, 14 August 2012

Chris Egan @ Rushton Park, Mandurah, home of Peel Thunder Football Club, 14 August 2012