Thursday 30 August 2012

INTERVIEW: My interview with Chris Egan (Peel Thunder and Perth Glory supporter, Perth Glory historian, and former WAFL radio commentator, age 25), by Kieran James, 14/8/2012

"Come on you Glory Boys!!" Chris Egan - Peel Thunder and Perth Glory supporter, Perth Glory historian, and former WAFL radio commentator. Chris's father Stewart Egan played five games and kicked two goals for Swan Districts in its 1982 premiership season.
My interview with Chris Egan (Peel Thunder and Perth Glory supporter, Perth Glory historian, and former WAFL radio commentator, age 25), Mandurah, Western Australia, 14 August 2012, by  Kieran James

Chris Egan on Peel Thunder Football Club: “Despite our crowds having nothing much to celebrate, the crowds are not far from the WAFL average. You have a loyal base of supporters. The club continues to exist and it has been resistant to hindrances. It shows it is a club of resistance and fight that will not lie down although it had many aspects that led to its current status in the game”.

Chris Egan on young WAFL supporters aged 13-30 years: “Now the young people are looking at WAFL as an entertainment product and they don’t get as emotionally involved. A lot of my mates are emotionally involved in their WAFL clubs. It depends on what circle of friends you are in”.

Chris Egan on Perth Football Club supporters: “Perth fans are very nostalgic!”
  
Rushton Park, Mandurah 
Kieran James Question 1: Hi Chris, thanks very much for agreeing to meet with me and for the tour we just did of the Peel Thunder home stadium Rushton Park. First of all can you tell me how you became a Peel Thunder and WAFL supporter?

Chris Egan Question 1: I was always interested. My dad [Stewart Egan] took me to the first Peel Thunder game in 1996. A year or two before that (I was six) my dad took me to South Fremantle versus West Perth. The year before Peel joined the WAFL there was a South Fremantle game here. My dad and granddad would take me to Rushton Park. I would request to go with my dad and granddad to all Rushton Park [local league] games. My granddad lived in Morfitt Street near the ground; I was extremely close to him. I would go to three to four [Peel Thunder] home games a year from 1996 to 2004. During my first year of uni, 2005, there was an email [I received] saying “would you like to do around-the-grounds reporting in WAFL?” At 990AM. I would get the stats for the WAFL games. I went to all the WAFL grounds in the comp. After around-the-grounds, I was assistant producer for the radio.

KJ: So what was your perception about the WAFL games you saw?

Chris E: I found it was more enjoyable. I had issues with the unfairness of the AFL draw. It was manipulated to bigger clubs and crowds. I found I was drawn to the WAFL style of play. It was less scientific. I gradually got interested in the football through that; I got more enjoyment from the WAFL [than from AFL].

One of my friends, a Dockers’ and Eagles’ member, I got involved in around-the-grounds reporting. My mate, a South Fremantle supporter and Perth Glory fan, would do around-the-grounds for South Fremantle. I got other friends involved. These people were doing sports management or journalism in uni. I grabbed a bigger group going to the WAFL games and it developed a social side as well. I was around-the-grounds before I was associate producer.

That was how I got involved. My dad was a Swan Districts fan and former player so there was a WAFL connection in the family. [KJ note: Chris's father Stewart Egan played five games and kicked two goals for Swan Districts in its 1982 premiership season. At a weaker club he may have played more senior league football.] He is now a Peel Thunder member; he hasn’t missed a game this year. AFL is still his main priority but if his son was not interested in WAFL he would not be. I have friends all through the WAFL including my past lecturer who I go to games with. I have a wide social group.

Chris Egan supporting Perth Glory FC
KJ: The social group is at Peel Thunder games?

Chris E: I don’t have as large a group at Peel Thunder as when I go to away games as my mates are opposition fans. I have been to every Peel Thunder game this year except for three when I was either going to A-League [soccer] finals outside Perth or when the Peel Thunder and Perth Glory starting times clashed.

KJ Question 2: What are some of the most memorable WAFL games you have seen?

Chris E Question 2: My most memorable game was in the year [2002] when Danny Wells played. It poured with rain in the first half. It was the most memorable game, it was 2002. Danny Wells completely dominated the game. It was the year Allistair Pickett won the Sandover Medal and Wells finished third. [JF note: Allistair Pickett won the 2002 Sandover Medal with 33 votes. In 2004 he won his second Sandover Medal whilst playing for Subiaco.] We were eight goals behind at three-quarter time...

KJ: Playing against whom?

Chris E: It was versus East Fremantle at Rushton Park [JF note: Round 18, 3 August 2002, Peel Thunder 13.17 (95) d East Fremantle 13.13 (91)]. This year we also beat Claremont at Claremont Oval [KJ note: Round 11, 2 June 2012, Peel Thunder 14.14 (98) d Claremont 11.18 (84)]. Also in 2010 I remember we beat West Perth by seven goals which stopped them getting into the finals [KJ note: Round 8, 9 May 2010, Peel Thunder 16.17 (113) d West Perth 11.6 (72), Rushton Park]. We played an amazing game of football.

Chris Egan supporting P Glory (centre, white t-shirt)
KJ Question 3: Do you follow the AFL as well as following WAFL?

Chris E Question 3: I think I do watch games still. I am still an Eagles’ supporter but I don’t feel upset when they lose. I don’t have a strong emotional connection to them. It does not affect my feelings when they lose. I’m probably more of a band-wagon jumper. I hope they do well but I don’t get upset if they don’t. This is not my attitude in relation to other teams I support.

KJ: What do you think of the AFL leadership and strategic direction? You know I have made a few comments about this on the website...

Chris E: I don’t like Demetriou. I think it [AFL] has been way too concerned about getting the largest crowds although they have changed it in the last year. I think GWS [Greater Western Sydney] is going to be a financial disaster. First-year crowds are below what they expected. They said they had a 20-year plan but it needs to be revisited. Sydney Swans also does not have a large supporter base. Other codes are not spending nearly as much as AFL in Sydney. Sydney Swans have a base support of only 20,000. They got 13,000 to one game in inclement weather this year. There has been an over-emphasis on the non-traditional states over the traditional states. Port Adelaide Power is doing poorly because the players are going to regions which can’t create their own players. Other clubs are weaker too.

KJ: And the AFL has, very disappointingly, allowed State of Origin football to die...

Chris E: You would have a lot of state [football] interest if players could play where they choose rather than the draft. Victoria versus The Rest did not make many people happy except for the Victorians.

KJ Question 4: Can you give us your comments about Peel Thunder’s on-field performance since its WAFL debut and is it correct to label the club as a failure given it has never played finals?

Chris E Question 4: I said this to you before [during our walk around Rushton Park earlier in the day]. There are multiple factors involved. We had our best players siphoned off. We lost Pickett two seasons after his Sandover Medal win and Wells that season. Pickett won four premierships with Subiaco. We lost our best coach Peter German that year. Our midfield was ripped out. The club never had concessions to start with and had no revenue to improve facilities. When Peel came in there was dilapidated facilities and no funding unlike with West Perth at Arena Joondalup. Building a new grandstand was so important for the club and effort was put into this rather than into the on-field side. We are constantly rebuilding. We didn’t have the greatest administration.

Mandurah is not a huge hub of employment, we have three training bases, Mandurah has higher unemployment, and it is not easy to attract players. We lost Rory and Brock O’Brien to East Fremantle, two integral players. Good players often leave to achieve success. David Hynes (Fremantle Dockers) got injured for many years. Two full-time coaches – Garry Hocking and Chris Waterman – were not there for the club but for the [prospects of future] AFL appointments. We have geographic issues, player issues (Hayden Ballantyne, David Wells – they are recognized as the best talent to come into the WAFL in the last ten years). Once we have good players they are wanted by other clubs who can give them better employment closer to uni.

KJ: Being based in Mandurah then is somewhat of a double-edged sword?

Chris E: Yes and the AFL knew this was a fast-growth area. AFL wanted a team here. South Fremantle did not look after the area as well as they should have.

KJ: So you regard the future of Peel Thunder Football Club in the WAFL as now assured?

Chris E: The talent development for the AFL is the main reason the club will continue.

KJ: As a feeder club for WAFL / AFL?

Chris E: It is not so much a feeder club but it’s why the club was admitted ... and the club is producing good players. If you take the club away it is to the detriment of all WAFL clubs. As long as the players are in the comp [somewhere] then the entertainment is there.

I have heard we are paying too much to Victorian and South Australia players. Having impediments for success in 1996 has created revolving issues for the club. A bad season creates further worse seasons due to lack of money and attendances. Success breeds success as they say.

KJ: So, returning to our original question, would it be fair to call Peel Thunder a failure given it has never reached the finals?

Chris E: For me I think the impediments prevented Peel Thunder from being anything other what it is today. If you don’t invest in expansion clubs they won’t do well. You can see it in NSL [former National Soccer League, 1977-2003], A-League, and NRL. Despite our crowds having nothing much to celebrate, the crowds are not far from the WAFL average. You have a loyal base of supporters. The club continues to exist and it has been resistant to hindrances. It shows it is a club of resistance and fight that will not lie down although it had many aspects that led to its current status in the game.

KJ Question 5: Can you tell me more about the Peel Thunder supporters?

Chris E Question 5: There are a few hardcore supporters. You have different audiences at different games – more at the Fremantle away games [than at away games further away from Mandurah]. A dozen or so would go to every game. Fremantle Oval [versus South Fremantle] would get 200-250 away supporters especially if Peel Thunder is in good form. It can be 20-30 for a more distant away game. I’m probably one of the few dedicated fans of my age. I don’t think there is anyone else aged in their mid-20s who will dedicate themselves to go to every game. Those who do [go to every game] are 45-60 years, middle-class – they have a son or nephew in Colts and they will stay for the league game. Only a few of us will go to every game that don’t have a [family or friendship] connection to the players.

KJ: Is there any cheer squad at Peel Thunder?

Chris E: There is one guy who will shout in front of the Members at home games and he will sing “Let’s go, Thunder, let’s go” and really gee them up. There is no cheer squad. He has a Docker tattoo on his arm as well. He is well known within the club; he does create that chant and get everyone involved. He does get the whole crowd involved. He does not stand behind the goals. There is no other cheer squad.

Patrick Mirosevich, SFFC cheer squad
KJ Question 6: What cheer squads presently exist in the WAFL as far as you are aware? As you know, this WAFL Golden Era website focuses on the mid-1980s when Perth, Claremont, West Perth, and Subiaco had sizeable cheer squads.

Chris E Question 6: There is really only one cheer squad which has flags and that is South Fremantle cheer squad in my opinion. [KJ note: See my interview with Patrick Mirosevich of South Fremantle Football Club cheer squad on this website.] There is one guy at Subiaco but there is not an organization of people who sit in one place with chants and flags. Only South Fremantle has this group.

At Swan Districts under the beer shed especially in bigger games there is lots of chanting including soccer themes. They are more vocal, they don’t have flags. [JF note: This group is called the Abuse Crew.] I went to East Perth versus Swan Districts; they had a lot of chants under the tin roof.

KJ: Is this tin roof in the Members’ area?

Chris E: There is a public bar; it is not restricted to members. They were very loud. They were quite organized. They had their own shirts. I was told one of the Perth Glory Shed members was in that group which is another link between WAFL and Perth Glory.

South Fremantle cheer squad has six main members; half are regular Perth Glory fans that will go to [Perth Glory] home and away games. The South Fremantle cheer squad will go to the end where South Fremantle is kicking. Their ages are 21, 28, 22, 15, one in his fifties, and one of the dads in his fifties as well. They have flags as well as chants.

There is another one, East Fremantle. They stand behind the goals, mostly at the southern end. They are all aged between 20 and 40. It varies in numbers. They have 10-15 people at other grounds [for away games]. One guy called Hank has a flag and he is a Glory supporter. The cheer squad know him and like him but he does not sit in the same vicinity as them. He is an aboriginal guy.

SFFC cheer squad - Patrick second left, Wayne far right
KJ Question 7: In various places on the WAFL Golden Era website I have said how the WAFL needs to attract more people in the 13-30 years age range. These are the people with no personal experience of the pre-West Coast era in Perth. However, as I’m now living in Queensland and in recent years have only attended Lathlain Park games I may be getting the wrong impression of WAFL overall. What are your comments on this?

Chris E Question 7: I see that there is quite a few that will go. [However] I don’t see many at Rushton Park. At East Fremantle, South Fremantle, and Claremont you get quite a few males in that age range and a few females who have boyfriends playing in that game. In terms of the supporters and members some are the older base. The Claremont after-match presentation had an average age of 75 when I was there! Younger ones would sit on the grassed banks [at Claremont Oval] and regard it [WAFL] as a valid entertainment option. They see it that they can pick and choose. Older ones see it as a loyalty, fan, and pride issue. Younger ones are attracted but they see it differently as cheap entertainment.

KJ: So because I have seen recent WAFL games only at Lathlain Park do you think I’m not getting an accurate picture of the situation across the WAFL?

Chris E: I have not seen as many [younger ones] at Lathlain Park. At East Fremantle Oval you will see some trendy young people. At the Foxtel Cup Grand Final [2012], Claremont versus Werribee, there were many young trendy people there.

SFFC cheer squad, Patrick has red jacket & flag
KJ: What was the total crowd at that game? I think the Foxtel Cup is really a great development. I went to the Claremont versus Port Adelaide Magpies game last year...

Chris E: The total estimated crowd was 1,500 on a Thursday night. You will see at WAFL your young Aussie mates who just want to hang out for the day.

KJ: In one comments piece on the WAFL Golden Era website the author suggested free admission to WAFL games for children and concession pass holders and for full-time students less than 25 years. What is your opinion of this idea?

Chris E: The WAFL does a lot of marketing for families but the student and young adult market is quite competitive. I don’t think you need free adults, you need social media. I told Peel Thunder they are telling people things [online] but not engaging with their community or understanding what they want. Are they really looking at their demographics? Resources for social media can be enhanced. I don’t think you need to devalue your product by free entries. There are 2-for-1 concession entry tickets in the Football Budget. The WAFC should really promote social media although it has improved this year. Peel Thunder says there are a lack of resources and funding to utilize social media more extensively. They have the opportunities but they don’t have the time and people to take advantage of it. You don’t want much central direction [of social media]. The WAFC could direct money to clubs for social media.

KJ: I have been posting links to WAFL Golden Era posts on the Facebook pages of the WAFL and the various clubs. South Fremantle, East Perth, West Perth, and Perth seem to have the most active and popular Facebook pages of all the clubs.

Chris E: Perth fans are very nostalgic!

Mike B. & Kieran J., WP cheer squad founders, 1984-86
KJ: Yes!

Chris E: Some of these regions, such as Claremont and Peel Thunder could have pensioner days or include a [match] ticket with a lunch / dinner or have a bus in from the country zone. They do this a lot on the east coast. There are opportunities to expand the supporter base in all demographics. It is business as usual [unfortunately] for some WAFL clubs. There are further factors to increase growth. Social media will not grab everyone. It is only one factor to bring supporters in. Now the young people are looking at [WAFL] as an entertainment product and they don’t get as emotionally involved. A lot of my mates are emotionally involved in their WAFL clubs. It depends on what circle of friends you are in.

KJ Question 8: What do you think should be the WAFL’s strategic direction? In particular do you think there should be new expansion teams perhaps based in country regions? An author wrote on this website about the Intrust Super Cup model of active expansion. Intrust Super Cup is the Queensland second-tier rugby-league competition which is the local equivalent of the WAFL being one tier below NRL.

Chris E Question 8: Strategic direction of the WAFL? One area I am interested in is regionalization. West Perth is trying to attract the British element in their area by the Union Jack on their jersey. However, this may offend or alienate people who don’t see the Union Jack as a positive thing...

KJ: Yes we may need to create a new club called West Perth Celtic [smiles].
The over-30s crowd at Lathlain Park, 2/7/11

Chris E: Yes [also smiles]. There are better ways to do it than West Perth has done. Peel Thunder can link in better to its region. A bus from Waroona [to Peel Thunder home games] two to three times a year could grab the youth. Clubs need to look at the community and demographics and aim the club in that direction. They need to have regard for other cultures. West Perth did not do that as some people see the Union Jack as an offensive emblem.

There is a big debate at East Fremantle as to whether they should move to Fremantle Oval and whether Claremont should move to the Agricultural Showgrounds. It is cheaper for Claremont to redevelop their own ground. For East Fremantle it comes down to politics between them and South Fremantle regarding the leasing arrangements. I don’t know how keen South Fremantle is about East Fremantle coming to Freo Oval. East Fremantle wanted 50% of the gate and alcohol sales if the Foundation Day Derby was to be played at Freo Oval each year but South Fremantle said “no”. It depends on their individual situation as to how they think the club can best grow. East Fremantle Council presently get one-third of the gate and they may not want East Fremantle there. The land [East Fremantle Oval] is owned by the council and they could make a lot of money by selling it off. They are using financial penalties to drive them out, subtle means. I have a feeling South Fremantle do not want them there [at Fremantle Oval]. I know an East Fremantle fan who does not mind if they move back to their original home.

KJ: What do you think of the idea of expanding the WAFL by bringing in new teams?

Chris E: I think you really have to see whether a town can sustain a new club as two new AFL clubs are draining players out of South Australia and Western Australia. You don’t want to dilute the playing standard. A population of around seven million [i.e. Victoria, South Australia, and Western Australia] is supporting eighteen AFL clubs and bringing in other clubs will only increase the dilution of the WAFL and SANFL. Now the zoning system has a [WAFL] club in every part of the metro area. Before Peel was involved it was easier to miss players because of the size of population of the zone. The club represents 250,000 people from Rockingham to Waroona. You are [now] less likely to miss young players out.

KJ: What do you think about a team based in Bunbury? The town has produced some fine WAFL footballers over the years...

Chris E: I can’t see Bunbury getting in unless they have a population of 100,000 and there is a desire to be in the comp. The mistake is wanting a team in rather than they want to be in. The SWFL [South West Football League] clubs are paying as much as the WAFL clubs. Carey Park is upgrading their facility. It may be that people there are happy to have their own league. I will wait to see whether they want to be in it and have a strong business case. Swan Districts relies on a turnover of AUD4.6 million. You need a large turnover to compete with the WAFL clubs.  You need to turnover this amount of cash to compete at the top end.

Danny Wells (Peel Thunder & North Melbourne)
KJ: How about a new team in the Goldfields region?

Chris E: I think Goldfields may be a bit far away. Being brought up in the Pilbara it has a very transitional community in the mining sector. Lack of crowds in Canberra shows transitional communities are not able to sustain clubs. I haven’t actually been there [Goldfields] so I can’t comment much. Being seven hours from Perth may not make it a functioning addition to the WAFL and the population may not be able to support it. Also, like Bunbury, do they want to be in it or not?

KJ Question 11: What do you think of the WAFL’s prospects for the future?

Chris E Question 11: I see it in a positive limelight obviously. Since I’ve been going to the WAFL from 2005 I’ve noticed a big change in the size of crowds. I went to a final with 11,000 crowd at Swan Districts [preliminary final versus East Perth on 11 September 2010 which drew a crowd of 11,251 people] and a Foundation Day Derby crowd of 11,000 at East Fremantle Oval [Monday 1 June 2009 game which drew 11,051 people to East Fremantle Oval]. That experience at Bassendean Oval was quite amazing. It felt like a really big game. Half the crowd was Swan Districts, half was East Perth. You had merchandise sales for both teams. People were still coming into the ground at quarter-time. The same thing happened at East Fremantle Oval. I think people there did not expect that. I think when you have already smashed [i.e. exceeded] people’s expectations of what the WAFL will become there is the ability to continue to smash expectations. Western Australians now see WAFL in a totally different limelight from when it was Westars Rules. I think now Dennis Cometti wants to protect the WAFL and John Worsfold says he does not want to ruin the WAFL comp and he will leave it [entry of AFL reserves teams into the WAFL] to the WAFL presidents.

There is real camaraderie across the nine clubs. There is more government funding. It is becoming increasingly popular for corporates. Since we left Subiaco Oval crowds are rising for finals. People are not seeing the WAFL as on its death-bed like in the Westar era. People are happy to go to it as an entertainment option. The price has risen but people are still going. It is not cheap now but the demand has shown itself to be inelastic. It has shown you don’t need pokies to sustain your footy clubs. SANFL clubs rely on poker machines but WAFL clubs have been able to stay within their market demands and not [have their profitability] distorted by pokies.

Danny Wells (PTFC & NMFC)
KJ: Do you expect WAFL attendances will rise further?

Chris E: I think it depends on how WAFL clubs go about it. There is an issue where we have Claremont always on top of the ladder as they don’t have a large supporter base. Top of the ladder clashes get bigger crowds whereas in the early-2000s [this did not happen because] there was not the hype. Before you would get only an extra 200 but now crowds are doubling. The Subiaco versus West Perth day [11 August 2011] was International Community Day with the Union Jack, they got 6,000 [official attendance 6,044 according to WAFL Online]. They will regard it as a success and it may make that Union Jack continue. If they get 6,000 for that they may continue to go in the same direction as Central District Bulldogs [SANFL club which has an upfront British image].

KJ Question 12: Lastly, can I ask for your comment on WAFL Golden Era website and have you suggestions for how we can expand or improve it?

Chris E Question 12: I think it’s good. My dad played in the 1980s, my grandpa watched games in the 1980s. It’s good to have an understanding of what they had. To have that history recorded is invaluable to those people such as me who were not around to experience it.

KJ: Possible future directions for our website?

Chris E: No, I have no suggestions. You should just build it as you see fit. I will let you decide upon future direction. Whatever you do to create added information and interest in the WAFL is a good thing.

KJ: OK, thanks very much for your time Chris and for your very detailed and insightful observations about many topics relating to WAFL football. It is great in particular to talk to a dedicated, new-generation WAFL fan in his twenties such as yourself.

Chris E: Thank you!        

Kieran James (left) and Chris Egan @ Cicerello's Mandurah, 14 August 2012
Chris Egan (left) and friend Reuben @ Dorrien Gardens Soccer Ground, West Perth, watching Perth Soccer Club play in the State League, August 2012
Chris Egan @ Rushton Park, Mandurah, home of Peel Thunder Football Club, 14 August 2012
Chris Egan @ Rushton Park, Mandurah, home of Peel Thunder Football Club, 14 August 2012

  

         

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